Unidentfied Mosquito display, possibly Germany 1946

Brilliant, thanks Ger.

RadarArchive,

Information on the event came via the Ypenburg Historical Society: https://www.historischypenburg.nl/

I suppose they used ‘Delpher’, a Dutch Newspaper Search-site: https://www.delpher.nl/

See attached snippets (in Dutch, sorry)

Regards,

Ger

Good to see this place is still working even if its in its retired state!

Factfndr54, Thanks, that’s tremendously helpful. May I ask where you found this information?

RadarArchive, Just received additional information: The four pictures that you published (visit of Prins Bernhard) were taken on July 27th, 1946. There was a radio-/radar-exibition on Ypenburg Airfield from July 25th until August 16th. Approx. 2000 persons visited the exhibiton (By invitation only..) About the album: pictures 63-73 and 75 were all taken at Ypenburg.

Factfndr54,

Thanks so much for this, which is extremely helpful. I take your point about the sequence of the photos and it may well be this was on the way back from Germany. Clearly much more research is required, but thank you again for your help in the meantime.

Correction: Camera is pointing Northwest

Hello RadarArchive,

The location most probably is Ypenburg airfield, near The Hague in The Netherlands.

Date is (still) unknown, probably end 40’s/early 50’s.

The camera is pointing North.
To the right, on the horizon, the chimney of the laundry-firm ‘De Zwitsersche’ in Rijswijk
To the left between the trees: ‘Huize Zuidhoorn’, currently the ‘Savarin’ hotel, also in Rijswijk.
The trucks are parked along building ‘A6’.

See markings in attached file.

A remark about the route of A.J. Drake’s unit:
The Hague – Stade seems logical, as all Signals vehicles assembled at that airfield.
But the photo-sequence in the album and a caption: “frontier into Holland”, suggest they went the other way.

To be continued…

AgCat,

Thanks, but the photos are not of an FDP, I’m pretty sure of that. The radar equipment is incorrect for it to be an FDP alone, as it includes a Type 6 Light Warning Set and other equipment that would not be part of an FDP. This is why I’ve had difficulty identifying the unit, because it’s not a Type 70 or an FDP or an MRCP. However, it’s possible that the images show a combination of the units, perhaps travelling together en route before setting up at different sites?

Alan,

Sorry if I’ve not been clear, but AMES 114 has nothing to do with this enquiry. I merely mentioned it because the images I have of 114 show that its vehicles did carry the unit number on them, contrary to what I had previously claimed. However, it has nothing to do with the AJ Drake photos.

The ORB for 114 AMES is in AIR 29/171 at Kew, it covers up to October 1946 and in the description of the files records them being in Germany from June 1945.

Ian – I think we are getting somewhere.

I read that a Group Control Centre (GCC) comprised one AMES Type 70; one Forward (or Fighter) Director Post (FDP); and one Mobile Radar Control Post (MRCP). The FDP and the MRCP were positioned at dispersed locations and not co-located with the AMES Type 70. Each GCC was based on a convoy of some 30 specialist vehicles, ranging from aerial carriers, control cabins, a mobile telephone exchange and domestic accommodation.

I further understand that a FDP was based on an AMES Type 25 mobile radar convoy, each comprising a Type 11 (50 cm), a Type 13 (10 cm), a Type 14 (10 cm) and a Type 15 (1.5 m) radar. These radars were used to direct fighters and to assist offensive support aircraft to reach ground targets. Each FDP could control up to three simultaneous interceptions and was resistant to jamming because of the range of wavelengths available.

Based on your comments at #13, are we looking at the FDP section of a GCC rather than the core Type 70 itself?

From the photos I’ve seen of units, the vehicle type number was usually painted on the doors. This number doesn’t tie-in with the radar type number, and being specific to the vehicle type, does not indicate the unit number.

During the war there were thousands of mobile radar units, but by 1946 many of these had been disbanded. However, there would still have been hundreds, if not into the thousands, but I’ve not seen a list. The official histories of RAF Signals all stop at the end of the war. Whilst official records will continue, without knowing which unit I was looking for, I’ve not been able to pursue that avenue.

Unfortunately, I don’t have a service number for AJ Drake. He was not an officer (one portrait of him shows him as an LAC) so I have no means of getting his number, nor tracing any possible next of kin to obtain his service record. The only information I have about him comes from the photo album. There’s no point in looking for him in the ORBs of the various stations he served at because radar station ORBs do not go into that detail and certainly will not mention a member of the other ranks unless there are exceptional circumstances.

About the only clue to AJ Drake’s background is a picture of him in Sea Scouts uniform. It has a “12th Oxford” shoulder title, so I assume (rightly or wrongly) that he was probably from Oxford or the surrounding area. Presumably he would have volunteered for RAF service in Oxford? However, tracking down information about him from such scanty details seems a bit of a long-shot at best. Any suggestions would, however, be very welcome.

Ian, the third picture in your original post shows a vehicle registration of “RAF 106062” on the rear, but on the driver’s side door you can see other numbers. Possibly “698” or “598”. Could these be the last digits of their AMES unit? Were unit numbers found on the doors of these vehicles, or was it something else? And just how numerous were the AMES units by 1946?

What have you found regarding Drake’s service record and the units he served with? You have a known RAF radar operator and a hand-drawn map showing some movements of his unit, can that be cross-referenced with the ORBs?

AgCat,

Thanks very much indeed for this which is very interesting. I don’t know a great deal about he Type 70, but the radar types shown in the photos seem to include the height-finder and plan position indicator sets (Types 13 and 14 respectively) that comprised a Type 70, but with additional equipment over and above. I had therefore originally ruled out a Type 70. However, I do wonder if in fact what we are seeing is a Type 70 plus other associated units. If it’s not a single radar unit, but several on a single site, that would certainly explain why it didn’t match my expectations for what a single unit would comprise. I’ll need to do a bit more reading on his, but this certainly looks like a possibility. Thanks!

Incidentally, Alan I owe you an apology. I was wrong when I said I’ve never seen photos of radar units with the unit number on the vehicle. I didn’t think I had been looking through some photos I found images of AMES 114 vehicles showing both “BAFO/60 114” and “TAF/60 114.” Clearly radar units did sometimes show the unit number on the vehicles, although not in the case of the unit about which I have been enquiring. Anyway, apologies for my error and any confusion caused as a result.

The aerial array visible in pic 4 is suggestive of this piece of art in the IWM:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]243006[/ATTACH]

The IWM ref is ART LD 5511 and it is captioned 83 Group Control Centre.

[I][/RAF Germany Since 1945″I] by Bill Taylor notes that the 83 Gp GCC moved from the Netherlands to Germany. It used an AMES Type 70 main radar and a number of Mobile Radar Control Posts were associated with each GCC. The depicted vehicles might therefore be a MRCP associated with a GCC.

It also looks like the chassis of one of the large vehicles might be a Bedford QL, which also suggests a date after the war.

Alan,

Thanks for this. I have seen that thread, but I don’t think it helps me, I’m afraid. In all the photos I’ve seen (and trust me, it’s a lot) of vehicles from AMES mobile units, none has ever included the unit number on it anywhere, either on the front, rear or sides. They do often carry the group number, but that in itself is not especially helpful. Whilst it can be useful to confirm the group, there were an awful lot of units in each wing, never mind the group! In this particular instance, I can’t even seen the group number on the vehicles and all they seem to have is a roundel and the vehicle registration number, as seen here.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]243005[/ATTACH]

Are there any photos which show the front of their vehicles, there was a thread this week on RAF Commands about RAF vehicles, there will be a plate or painted square on the front which has the unit identification on it.

Alan,

Thanks, I wish I could. Unfortunately, I don’t know the number or other identity of the unit in question. All I have is the album and a hand-drawn map showing the route the unit took from The Hague through the Netherlands to Stade. From other units he served with (which have dates) I believe these photos were taken in 1946, but I don’t even know this for certain. Hence, I’m appealing for any clues that might identify the unit or provide other information.

The flags look like an RAF ensign and a Union flag. What you could do is either visit the National Archives, or as it is a long way from Peebles, get someone to go on your behalf and look at the ORB for the unit in question (if you know that) and look for visits by VIPs. Normal day to day would probably left out by scribblies seemed to llike writing about visits by royalty and anyone with stars/thick bands.

I wonder if the Dutch have archived records of Prince Bernhard’s official visits back in 1946?

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