United 93

For all the US flights, the cockpit is locked at ALL times. If the door needs to be open for any reason, the food cart is used to block the access from the cabin while one or two stewardresses stand in front of it. I assume this is not the case with non-US airlines hence the “surprising” comments here. If the airlines go through all that trouble to protect the locked door it means LAND THE PLANE at all costs. It does feel safer to see this being practiced…which i’m sure the next terrorist act involving vehicles is going to be very different and may not even be airlines anymore.

Land the plane, it’s as simple as that.

If there were hijackers on a plane now a days, who wanted to use it like in the events of 9/11….would pilots keep the cockpit door closed and land the plane even if it meant the hijackers whould open fire on the 300 or so passengers in the cabin?

If there were no Marshals aboard could they possibly make they choice between the passengers on board or more innocent civilians on the ground?

On the subject of Air Marshals, i work for a US Airline, there are more Air Marshals on the flights across the Atlantic than you would probably believe.

I would have to agree : an excellent film, and had me on the edge of my seat. The tension was nearly unbearable before the cockpit was seized as you know what’s going to happen. The use of unknown actors for the various roles was also brilliant as you could relate to the people in the film more. Based on my own judgement, it didn’t seem like a typical Hollywood over-dramatisation.

If, god forbid, there are hijackers that attempt to take over a plane again some time in the future using whatever method, pilots will not open the cockpit door and will fly to the nearest airport for an emergency landing, regardless of what is happening in the cabin?

I fly about 3-4 times a year and have to say that while not scared of it by anymeans, each time I get on a plane (Ryanair 737-800 from Stansted to Montpellier and vice-versa usually) I do always find myself looking around at the other passengers, thinking in part ‘if something happened, could all of us stop it?’

Yes it was a very good film, watched it last week with the Gf

Also you would have to give pilots extensive firearms training

That’s what the training is for.

wait a sec I thought their job was to fly the plane not to kill intruding terrorists.

What’s a pilot’s job when a terrorist breaches the cockpit, fly the plane? That’s like stopping a bank robbery by counting the money.

Hey,

I seem to have started this thread then hid in some faraway corner. I believe that arming pilots is a great idea but if you think about it, the pilots would have to be very quick to react as soon as an intruder gets into the flight deck he will try and stand the pilots. Also you would have to give pilots extensive firearms training and wait a sec I thought their job was to fly the plane not to kill intruding terrorists. I guess this problem is here to stay and a solution aint easy.

Regards
AJ

Any talk of arming pilots in the EU?

As I’ve said before…

If the gun is kept in the cockpit as the last line of defense the pilots can use in case of breach of the flightdeck door then that is the one place it can be stored where it CANNOT BE USED BY AN INTRUDER to gain access. Sitting there as we do at present with nothing means we are defenseless against inevitable intrusion. A gun in the flightdeck could be the final opportunity to save lives.

The idea isn’t new

No, but actually arming pilots is (with a few acceptions).

it would seem most pilots don’t want it

I think the reality is quite the opposite. There are quite a lot of hoops that must be jumped through until a pilot is authorized to carry so that can be a reason someone isn’t armed. Just getting the time off for training is something not every pilot can do.

because a shootout in a cockpit is always a bad idea

Or so says Hollywood. Airplanes aren’t made of glass and won’t fall out of the sky at the slightest damage, gun related or not.

because the majority of pilots does not have any kind of regular practice with firearms, unlike the marshalls.

Any armed pilot is trained, they aren’t just given a gun and told to show up at work. I believe now that the training is in the same department as the FAM’s. Also the pilot training goes beyond just firearm training and really deals with protecting the flight deck. Why some are against such measures is beyond me.

Just arm the pilots.

The idea isn’t new, but it would seem most pilots don’t want it … not only because a shootout in a cockpit is always a bad idea, but also because the majority of pilots does not have any kind of regular practice with firearms, unlike the marshalls.

Let’s be honest guys, the airlines will never employ full time/constant security staff.

2 per flight at $20,000 by 2 is $40,000 per year per destination and route.

Simply your lookign at $2,000000/£1.5 per year for small airlines.

then when you get to the major carriers times that by 3!

Just arm the pilots.

Especially with the American film industries tendancy to distort the facts

Well that and the tendancies of the US to make blockbuster films on whatever far fetched subject they can.

We see dramatic, action, real life films coming out of the US everyday. The 9/11 story was much more dramatic and real than anything that could come out on a screen and to do this, after only 5 years, I find a little dis-tasteful, though un-surprising.

I remember many things from that fateful day, but I remember one comment from me to my wife which was “I wonder how long it will take the yanks to make this into a film”.

I’m sure the film is excellent, but sometimes I believe things should be left alone.

Don’t feel ‘comfortable’ about this story been made into a film to be honest.

Especially with the American film industries tendency to distort the facts

Don’t feel ‘comfortable’ about this story been made into a film to be honest. It just doesn’t seem right.

I don’t know if people are making money out of it (if so, I think it isn’t right), if not, then I’d question it.

It is a film I just don’t want to see.

As for air marshalls – can’t see them ever being used more extensively than they are now.

That did happen once involving a Fedex aircraft and a disgruntled airline employee.

http://www.jethros.i12.com/fact/pages/FDX705.htm

watched the movie on opening night locally, with the rest of the 10-12 other filmgoers!!! quite powerful film, i almost cried.

the other Theater Complex from across had to play Da Vinci’s Code, that’s why nobody took United 93 seriously.

why can’t both US Military or Commercial Airports work together?

This thread is getting closer and closer to General Discussion territory, chaps.

I may very well move it across at some point.

GA

I was just going to say, just because the Scottish Parliament is in Edinburgh, doesn’t mean that is a need for sky marshalls, although it is potential target.

Is it mainly the American carriers that use sky marshalls, or do UK airlines use them as well…

I know this sounds harsh, but I don’t think we will ever beat terrorism now, tbh. Even if we find or kill Mr Bin Laden or other key figures of terrorist groups, it will not stop people from being radicalised into believing that they are fighting for a just cause…

One simple solution that might have an impact would be the withdrawal from Iraq, but I don’t think that that is a wise or possible move at the moment.

I have to agree with Cloud 9, in the fact that we will never beat terrorists,there is always going to be somebody that does not like what somebody else has said or done.There is always going to be 10 other’s to take over when one of these so called leader’s gets killed, who will promise to do bigger and badder things than the one before.
The War on Terrorism has always been there it is just that Mr Bush used 9/11 to invade Afganistan and then the second Gulf War , now the debate on if it was for Oil or to get rid of Sadam will rage for a very long time.
IMHO the War was wrong but getting rid of Sadam was the right thing to do.
If we and the Americans pulled out of Iraq now , there will be a civil war that will suck in the rest of the gulf, then Russia and China and before long World War 3.
The point I was making is that no matter what we do ,put Air Marshells on every flight or what every else ,there is always going to be that one person that nobody will suspect that has a bomb in his shoe or watch or where ever.

Paul