In all the debate about this leading up to the grotesque scenes in London yesterday I have seen no reference to, what seems to me to be the root of the problem, namely the huge expansion of universities in recent years. Prior to the 1992 Act there were 46 universities and now there are 115.
Has the explosion in graduates resulted in an increase in the quality of the UK’s gross output? Not perceivably, I would suggest. Just think by how much the funding crisis would be reduced, if not eliminated, if the numbers of students were halved.
By: Sky High - 12th January 2011 at 17:35
Ouch…………
By: spitfireman - 12th January 2011 at 17:22
1 down, 58 to go.
By: Bob - 12th January 2011 at 16:03
Yep – he is sure to be someone’s beeatch for the next few months.
Reassuring to hear his mother persuaded him to give himself up, rather than do nothing or defend his right to violent protest (as so many spokespersons for the student bodies seem to feel is acceptable).
We all do stupid things – most of us learn from them. I’m sure he will and I hope that his peers learn that violent disorder and actions like this young mans are unacceptable and punishable when they get caught.
By: spitfireman - 12th January 2011 at 12:31
Or be 57 seconds into this………..:diablo:
Nice man that Ben (and his mate Phil):D
By: Sky High - 12th January 2011 at 08:37
Fair enough Cloud 9, I see your point, but shame in this context bears an element of pity that his plans will not be realised and I cannot share in that feeling. My feelings are of relief that he didn’t kill or ingure anyone and that a chance to reflect on his wanton stupidity might make him him a maturer individual.
By: cloud_9 - 11th January 2011 at 22:48
Ok, sorry Paul, perhaps I should have said to “all you students who might consider violence next time…”!
By: PMN - 11th January 2011 at 22:41
To be honest, Cloud 9, when you address a reply to “all you students out there” that’s about as big and obvious a stereotype as can be!
By: cloud_9 - 11th January 2011 at 22:35
I cannot see why it is a shame.
Sorry Sky High, maybe I didnt make my point as well as I could…what I meant was that through his stupid actions, he has now ruined any/all chance of him being able to attend higher education, which was what he was protesting about in the first place! Thats why I said it was a shame.
Hope we arent stereotyping here :p
I don’t think I was sterotyping at all…it was a student protest! The point I was making was that other students should take a serious look and think before they consider engaging in violence if they choose to protest in the future.
By: heslop01 - 11th January 2011 at 20:52
Well in all seriousness – he got what he deserved. Throwing something out a window isn’t going to give answers to anything.
By: BSG-75 - 11th January 2011 at 20:17
He can now get a degree in ‘hot wiring’ and ‘twoc’……….brilliant:rolleyes:
Or be 57 seconds into this………..:diablo:
By: SpockXL319 - 11th January 2011 at 19:38
Let this be a lesson to all you students out
Hope we arent stereotyping here :p
By: spitfireman - 11th January 2011 at 17:52
He can now get a degree in ‘hot wiring’ and ‘twoc’……….brilliant:rolleyes:
By: Sky High - 11th January 2011 at 17:19
I cannot see why it is a shame. He deserved it, as you said. He has paid the price for his utterly irresponsible stupidity and I hope it is a lesson for others, although I doubt it.
By: cloud_9 - 11th January 2011 at 16:57
Let this be a lesson to all you students out there…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12159581
Such a shame that his so-called “moment of madness” has now ended up in a custodial sentance, and also probably ruined his chances of him going onto higher educaton (the very thing he was protesting about!) and also being able to get a decent job in the future, but it serves him right in my opinon, and like I said above, I hope that other students may heed this warning!:)
By: Sky High - 20th December 2010 at 15:02
I am sure the majority will totally agree with your last paragraph and in fact you have maturely summarised the situation in your post. It is a pity that more students do not share those views.
By: Ashley - 20th December 2010 at 13:45
Sorry if I sound rather confrontational here, but weren’t Uni fees paid by the government prior to 2003 (IIRC)? Therefore if you went to university before then you effectively got a free university education.
Errr, 1998 was the first year of students contributing to tuition fees – I know, that was the year I trundled off to Kent as a undergraduate 🙂
I am still paying for those fees now. Do I have a problem with that? No. I was 19 when I went to uni, an ADULT, responsible for myself. Why should I have had it all handed to me on a plate? Believe me, things feel much better when you have had to work for them. I worked part time while at uni to help get me through, and that definitely helped.
I am afraid I have no sympathy for those who acted violently or thuggishly during the protests. While I don’t agree with the protestors at all, I respect the fact that people have the right to have a different opinion to me. But expressing that opinion by assaulting people, trashing vehicles, setting fire to statues and so on…I don’t think so!
By: heslop01 - 18th December 2010 at 16:50
I think at least, can gladly put myself in the “other type” of students.
I’ve worked it out by doing a few little equations today and i’ve spent at least 80% on my reading list, notepads, pens, stationary etc, 10% on the trip with my class to London and then the last 10% i’ve used for 1 night out between September and now and maybe a few more books.
By: MishaThePenguin - 17th December 2010 at 23:07
I think pagen01 we will have to agree to differ. There is much talk of dubious courses but what are they? Whilst there have been a few subjects that have attracted media interest, the fact that a degree teaches (amongst other things) skills such as critical thinking is surely advantageous. I go back to my previous point that an educated population benefits society as a whole so society should also contribute!
And who judges what a good degree is? For example the most often quoted subject is media studies yet a cursory glance around the internet shows that worldwide sales by the BBC and the independent sector are booming – helped no doubt by media studies graduates.
You do illustrate my point though, by saying that most people have to struggle and borrow so “educated” people (as you put it) should also do the same. A well funded education system ensures that access to university is available for all and not just those who can afford it. A race to the bottom is never pleasant.
By: pagen01 - 17th December 2010 at 09:50
Sorry Misha but that last post is just rubbish.
If people want to get on to university education they can, they can use the loan system and pay it off when they get a job.
However it is fact that far too many people are going to university now, with some dubious courses being offered, and some just going while they make their minds up for a few years.
Most of us have to struggle and borrow throughout our working lives I can’t see why potentialy well educated people shouldn’t have to do so and why we should pay for them.
Our standards were far higher in this country years ago when only a fraction of the people went on to uni education that do now, it was seen as a special and select thing to do, but not now.
We have now got a well over subscribed university culture, you can’t justify wasting our taxes on this.
By: Sky High - 17th December 2010 at 08:26
Interesting exchanges but I think the key point is being missed. Too many students studying reading third rate courses at too many “universities”. It argues that with limited funds available the pot would be better filled if the numbers of students and numbers of universities were dramatically reduced to pre-1992 numbers.
Major’s policy of scrapping polytechnics started the ropt and it was exacerbated by the Blair/Brown mantra of university degrees for all and the result is a degraded higher education system. Poorly qualified students gain spurious qualifications for university entry, all to the sole purpose of reducuing youth unemployment numbers.
The UK used to be in the top flight of universities and higher education attainment. We need to return to that situation and we will not unless the present system is reformed.
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November 11, 2010 at 2:49 pm