Unknown French type captured by the Germans?

We’ve just been pointed towards the same thread over on the LEMB, so fantastic news! Thanks to everybody who contributed 🙂

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

It’s done!
In a French forum a member posted the solution:
This plane is a Weymann CTW 231 Tourisme.
The abbreviation CTW means Charles Terres Weymann.
The registration was F-ALQY.

http://www.aerostories.org/~aeroforums/forumhist/aff.php?nummsg=33592

Martin

edit:
It was three times modified, CTW 130, CTW 131, CTW 231
CTW 130 – 1 Renault 4Pb 95 hp , 1932
CTW 131 – 1 Hispano-Suiza 5Q 150 hp, 1932
CTW 231 – 1 Hispano-Suiza 9Qb 230 hp, 1933

The cockpit shape is reminiscent of the 40% scale version of the CAMS 161 six engined boat but I don’t think there’s any connection. The wings look too small and thin for it to fly so could it be a non-flying item for a festival or exhibition or even a rich child’s toy!?

Appreciate the help Martin… the answer must be out there, somewhere 🙂

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

I still have hope and pursue a few traces, e.g. in the German Museum in Munich.
Let’s see…

Martin

Yes indeed AA… you never know what might turn up in the future, but its made for some interesting discussion & debate. Thanks to you and everybody here for their time and thoughts 😉

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

It looks as if this one has stumped all the experts – on both sides of the Channel!

Just a thought, but the fact that this aeroplane was captured by the Germans at Toussus-le-Noble in 1940 does not necessarily mean that it was either a French produced or a French registered aeroplane. Maybe it will be necessary to consider a wider geographical sphere than France in order to tackle this enigma.

Next attempt:
Played a bit and discovered some letters on the fuselage -PYE- – a possibility or a wrong track? Any ideas?

F-APYE was a Gourdou-Leseurre GL-32 well illustrated here:

http://www.sbhac.net/Republica/Colabora/Gourdou/Gourdou.htm

Nice try though.

brgds
Alan

Next attempt:
Played a bit and discovered some letters on the fuselage -PYE- – a possibility or a wrong track? Any ideas?

AA – you’ve got an email.

Well, the following shows just how reliable an entry on a civil register is! Those wonderful chaps at Aéroscope, the fantastic collection of aircraft in the hangars on the far side of the airfield at Nantes Atlantique, have shed light in my darkness concerning F-PNDG as follows:

“M. Pierre Drouin a vendu son Potez 58 a trois jeunes pilotes qui voulaient faire le tour de la France. L’avion a été détruit en 1968 suite à un atterrissage forcé aux environs de Beaune. Un article est paru dans Aviation Magazine la même année”

which in translation says:

“Mr Pierre Drouine sold his Potez 58 to three young pilots who were wanting to make a tour of France. The aircraft had been destroyed in 1968 following a forced landing on the outskirts of Beaune. An article appeared in the Aviation magazine of the same year”.

So my information is only 42 years out of date. Forgive me if I go and soak my head!

Did any Potez 58’s (or similar) survive long after WW2, into the 50’s perhaps?

Actually, there’s one still on the French civil register. It’s Potez 585 F-PNDG (formerly F-ANDG), which is registered to P.F.Drouine at Nantes Atlantique. However in my many visits there, I have never seen it. Nor have I been able to find any photographs of or any information about it. Does anyone know any more about it?

It looks too “pretty” to be a 1930’s construction – a lot of French aircraft of that period definitely hit the ugly tree!!

Is it my imagination or does the podded engine look “wrong”? It doesn’t seem to have enough bulk to be a powerful engine, nor does there appear to be much clearance for any propeller with sufficient grunt…. I’ve trawled through reams of French manufacturers, including singletons and can’t find anything in 1930’s designs….

Did any Potez 58’s (or similar) survive long after WW2, into the 50’s perhaps?

I have to say, it does look a beautiful aircraft and very unusual, especially the undercarriage.

At least two 585 variants made it into the 50’s, one in France and one in Uruguay,

Looking at the UFO the engine appears to be a tractor, possibly a Regnier or Potez.

John

The forward part of the cockpit reminds me of the Sud-Est 200, just the shape. Something ‘twixt SE and LeO?

It looks too “pretty” to be a 1930’s construction – a lot of French aircraft of that period definitely hit the ugly tree!!

Is it my imagination or does the podded engine look “wrong”? It doesn’t seem to have enough bulk to be a powerful engine, nor does there appear to be much clearance for any propeller with sufficient grunt…. I’ve trawled through reams of French manufacturers, including singletons and can’t find anything in 1930’s designs….

Did any Potez 58’s (or similar) survive long after WW2, into the 50’s perhaps?

I have to say, it does look a beautiful aircraft and very unusual, especially the undercarriage.

On the French forum at http://www.aerostories.org/~aeroforums/forumhist/aff.php?nummsg=33257 side by side images of the Caudron PV-200 and the mystery beast have been posted which make it clear to see that the latter is not the former and in all probability is not a member of the same family. As there is nothing positive, by way of identification, on the French forum and as I am rather occupied at present, I’ll leave a translation until there is something substantive to translate and post.

Gooday All

Cockpit shape reminds me of an Aero 45/145 (just slightly)

cheers

No it isn’t, There I just answered myself. (I found a sketch of the Volland 10)

John

Could this be the Volland 10 which is described as a two place biplane with a Train (inline) engine.

John