"Unlimited" air racing in the UK?

RE: Unlimited air racing

There has been some quite good feedback thus far. Several people have identified what makes it attractive, as well as some of the pitfalls. As David says, this idea was tried on a limited basis before, and it was a reasonable success.

I have spoken to a TV producer acquaintance who didn’t think it would be overly difficult, to get coverage for it, if certain factors were in place.

It has to look glamourous, fast, risky and the machines being raced, have to be noisy! He also banged on about cockpit cameras, and location, from a TV technical point of view. I like the Dover(White cliffs) idea, I’ll suggest that to him!

The idea, is not for owners, to flog their wqarbirds to death in the name of sport. It is however, to make sure, that Warbirds get to a very wide audience. As Mick says,it’s not entirely remonved from the tail-chasing that goes on at airshows, but it also gives an audience, a chance to see aircraft , operating in a “freeer” environment.

I imagine, the airfield that the aircraft were based at, be it Lee, Thorney Island, Goodwood etc, would certainly make an interesting weekend for spotters, enthusiasts, photographers etc.

Patrick the TV producer, was going on about interspersing WW2 footage with presentations of individual aircraft. His point was, if you want to make it a “live” event, then certain things would have to happen, and that included guaranteeing, that the aircraft would be there in the first place! Mind you, he was also going on about mounting cameras on pylons etc. Oner of the reasons he thinks it does have a lot of interest, is the viewing figures, that anything involving vintage aircraft , or anything with a hint of wartime attracts, and yes, if you can get a mainstream TV company to cover it, or even a satellite one, then the major commercial sponsors, WILL fall over themselves to be involved, he thinks that that part, is largely an irrelevance.

Royal Aero Club and FAI participation, is also fairly essential. However, i note on the FAI site, that they are trying to get a “Grand Prix” circuit established for air racing. The are also images from this website.. http://www.haute-voltige.com/int/eventmotegi2001/photos_2000.htm

In particular, look at the way the Toyota team are flying, and this takes place, inside a small Motor-racing circuit!

Yes I know, the CAA would have several litters of kittens
So yes, we are talking about a small airshow, but full of glamour, and a nice bit of PR for Warbirds…. So, any owners, Air Show organisers etc care to comment?

Tony

RE: Unlimited air racing

Surely the answer to this lies in Yak racing?

Plentiful, cheap, no great loss if one or two are broken.

OK, the sound and the fury of Merlins and Pratt & Whitney’s would be missing, but the racing would be a lot closer, something similar to Formula 3 racing when compared to Formula 1.

A while back the Aerostars (?) did some simulated racing. Moderately good, and enlivened (?) by a commentary from Brendan Thingy – You either love him or hate him.

Spoke once to one of the instructors who had been involved in it. He disliked it since nearly all the other aircraft were flown by self-made businessmen, who weren’t used to / didn’t like, following instructions. The guy I was speaking to felt very uncomfortable flying that close to them.

RE: Unlimited air racing

Phil, while I respect your opinion…have a look at the Pylon1.com photo galleries. Dago Red, Voodoo, Strega are perfect extentions of the Mustang Airframe. They are simply beautiful. I do realize beauty is in the eye of the beholder…but in simple terms…these Mustang continue the legacy of a great design and there are no other piston aircraft that can touch them 60 years on! Dreadnaught and Furias do the same justice to the Sea Fury. While I am no expert on CAA regs, I’m sure they have the ability to grant some kind of waiver. If worse comes to worse hold it over the Channel off Dover…now theres a spectacular setting! There are plenty of airframes to go around…and if it were not for the early efforts of Chuck Lyford, Mike Nixon and a few other engine builders Merlins would not be as reliable or as system friendly as they are today. The “Charade” in the desert costs big bucks for the owners and they are not in it for the money…racing is about as close as modern day piston combat as we will get!

jim

>If this means anything like that charade that takes place in
>the US where perfectly good vintage aircraft are bastardised
>in the name of entertainment, then quite frankly NO.
>Sorry, but i feel quite strongly about this , its a bit like
>taking a Jaguar D type, shoehorning an ugly Chevvy V8 in
>which sticks out of the bonnet, panel beating the lines and
>moving the driving position to the center to try and make it
>go around corners quicker.
>
>Phil.

RE: Unlimited air racing

Maybe so Elliot, but not many of us will ever get the chance to participate in it, and for the vast majority of potential spectators it would be extremely boring indeed….apart from maybe the last couple of minutes when they all come back together as if the result has been fixed……….;-)

If you need any further proof of how unattractive it is as a spectator sport………..then ask one of the TV companies if they would like to film it and screen it………I think we all know the answer you would get…….it would be something along the lines of…”I would rather sleep with my mother-in-law….matey”

On the other hand, if a close circuit big piston warbird race was staged, then it is mine and Tony’s very humble opinion that lots of people would want to see it, and the TV companies would be happy to screen it as well.

There would be ABSOLUTELY no question of butchering historic aircraft as they do at Reno….it would be run at speeds and power settings that the owners/pilots were happy about, some would really wanna race and try to win, while others were just happy to participate…..it would not be Balls-out to the firewall, risking the engines……it actually would not be a hell of a lot different from the usual airshow high-power tailchasing around the airfield….but the element of competition would be the bit that attracts more than just your average enthusiast……blimey, if golf can draw huge audiences, utterly boring as it is IMHO….then huge bloody piston engined warplanes tonning it round a circuit should be a nice day out for Mr & Mrs Joe Bloggs and their 2.4 screaming kids……..!

As regards location, it would HAVE to be run over the sea somewhere, because we just don’t have enough free countyside in Britain…..especially free countryside where there is not a load of moaning NIMBIES to ruin your plans.
My favourite would be the Solent, where the Schneider race is already run every year, using Bembridge and/or Lee-on-Solent airfields.

The one thing that could really ruin it, apart from the weather of course, is the attitude of the insurance companies……but nothing is beyond the wit of man, unless it is a man without wit who’s trying to do it……..

TTFN
Mick

RE: Unlimited air racing

It’s not boring if you are taking part! Besides, the MacRobertson air race set the aviation world ablaze in 1934 – although boundaries are admittedly a lot harder to stretch today.

RE: Unlimited air racing

“What’s wrong with ordinary air racing?”

Because it’s bloody boring, that’s what !

🙂

RE: Unlimited air racing

I think simple economics would deter warbird owners from taking part in such races. Insurance is a big factor, with whacking extra premiums for anyone flying fast and low.

Also, aircraft in air races are flown at full throttle leaned back to give maximum revs for up to half an hour (normally, full throttle is only used for take off and the revs and prop pitch are brought back as soon as the aircraft is established in the climb). With Merlins costing £80-100,000 for a zero-time rebuild, that’s some very expensive wear and strain being placed on an engine. Look how many Merlins fail at Reno!

What’s wrong with ordinary air racing? By all accounts it is pretty exciting even if the racers are ordinary GA aircraft. The Schneider Trophy, King’s Cup etc are still part of the racing calendar. As a spectator, you get a flavour of the old barnstorming days without risking irreplacable warbird airframes.

The CFI where I fly from is a keen and successful racer in an AA1C Cheetah. There are special training schools held every year for pilots who want to race. I believe the minimum is 100 hours P1 and an aircraft capable of doing at least 100mph. This might not seem very fast, but the whole thing is handicapped with slower aircraft taking off first, so that in theory everyone crosses the finishing line at the same time.

These races take place all round the country, with each event lasting over a weekend. They are regularly featured in the monthly GA magazines such as Today’s Pilot, which publishes a calendar of events.

Next year why not attend one of your local races, you might be pleasantly surprised.

RE: Unlimited air racing

The was a ‘warbird’ unlimited race at Cranfield in 1986 and I think it was a reasonable success. Unfortunately I don’t think it’s worth the risk in the U.K where the weather is ‘crappy’ most of the time !

RE: Unlimited air racing

I certainly, do not want to bastardise airframes, in the name of sport.

This kind of Air racing, took place post war, and into the 50’s. At the end of the day, the decision to take place in an event of this kind, is down to the Pilots/owners.

There are several suitable areas in the UK for this activity. No, the CAA will not permit aircraft, that have not been specifically designed, or modified under stringent regulations to take part in this.

I am not suggesting Reno, this is Europe. An event of this kind can be tailored to local regulations/tastes.

and it will end up achieving something a lot of us want, Warbirds being brought to a wider audience, as mainstream entertainment.

The warbirds element, forms only a part of the hypothetical event, not the whole

Tony

RE: Unlimited air racing

To quench philo’s fury,I think it would never be possible to have unlimited warbird racing here.The FAA are a little more ‘broadminded’ when it comes to classifying aeroplanes,hence the ‘Experimental’ category for racers and homebuilts and the like.Here in the UK we have no such category,so any specially modified aeroplanes would immediately be grounded!
We have to remember that air racing of any class is a risky business, particularly when you are talking about tweaking a Merlin to breaking point.
The basic fact is that I think we just don’t have the right operational environment for the sport,aside from any personal views we might have or the amounts of cash involved.

Unlimited air racing

If this means anything like that charade that takes place in the US where perfectly good vintage aircraft are bastardised in the name of entertainment, then quite frankly NO.
Sorry, but i feel quite strongly about this , its a bit like taking a Jaguar D type, shoehorning an ugly Chevvy V8 in which sticks out of the bonnet, panel beating the lines and moving the driving position to the center to try and make it go around corners quicker.

Phil.