Unusual French type captured by the Germans

I think that these were they.

Is anybody able to upload the original image (without which this whole thread was a puzzle 🙂 )

Well it looks like a German chap has found a way in but noting the uniforms those chaps were entering a lot of places by force around that time :p

John

Another photograph of the Jarty Aviette has turned up. By virtue of the military personnel also in the picture, one can get a clearer idea of the scale of the machine.

But given time I might know someone who does!

On the Secret Projects forum, the following has been posted concerning the Jarty Aviette (q.v. http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,18657.msg179793.html#msg179793):

From L’aérophile, Bulletin officiel de l’Aéro-club de France, 1935:

‘Une aviette montée par Bréau.

Bréau, bon champion cycliste, a dernièrement essayé une aviette sur cycle, avec propulsion aérienne. Les résultats n’ont sans doute pas répondu aux espoirs, car nous n’avons plus de nouvelles de ces expériences.’

Translation: « Bréau, the able cycling champion, recently tried a cycle-based, air-powered aviette. The results probably didn’t meet the expectations as we have not heard of these experiments since. »

However I’m bound to point out that the machine in the two pictures has not yet been positively identified as the Jarty Aviette. But if it is and if the first photograph was taken on 17 July 1940 then, having regard to the assessment of its qualities by the Aéro Club de France, it’s remarkable that it was still in existence (and, apparently, in a reasonably sound condition) some five years later.

p.s. the matter is also being discussed at http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?p=163432.

Villacoublay must have been some sort of experimental station before the war because when I googled Villacoublay Wind Tunnel it came up with this Flight Global 1950 reference:
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1950/1950%20-%200099.html

It’s about Henri Mignet researching the Flying Flea crashes and says within it “Mignet quickly realised the true position after participating in full-scale wind tunnel experiments at Villacoublay in 1936….he tried 3 different design solutions in succession (conjugated wings. Auxiliary conjugated elevator flaps in the after wing and strongly reflexed aerofoil section in the after wing….)” (I have no idea what a conjugated wing is.)

I think this indicates a biggish wind tunnel, and a reputation for trying “innovative” solutions.

Maybe AA knows more….

Regrettably, on this occasion he doesn’t. But given time I might know someone who does!

It may be useful to find out what Villacoublay was used for prior to WW2.I think it may have been a test establishment,and the aircraft may have been either a scale free-flight model ,or possibly for wind-tunnel tests.
`it` does not appear to have ailerons as such,but does have a rudder,and possibly a `stabilator ` tailplane/elevator.

http://www.le.trait.dunion.free.fr/cariboost_files/INDEX_20TU_201_20_C3_A0_20266_20fini.pdf

In this list of all issues of “Le Trait d’Union” you can find on page 22 the following:
JARTY
Qui est ce ( Aviette Bréau) 215/43 (M)
…..
Martin

Which essentially says “What is this?”. That is what we would all like to know, but it is possible that “Aviette Breau” provides a further clue.
Most likely the reference to the issue 215 provides a photo.

Sorry to re-open an old thread, but I found it while searching for information about this photo I found on ebay. This was truly a weird design.

Hurry! Contact the EAA!

http://www.le.trait.dunion.free.fr/cariboost_files/INDEX_20TU_201_20_C3_A0_20266_20fini.pdf

In this list of all issues of “Le Trait d’Union” you can find on page 22 the following:
JARTY
Qui est ce ( Aviette Bréau) 215/43 (M)

Maybe AA knows more….

Martin

It is looking like something of that sort. Notice that the wings have single point attachments to each other via the struts and the struts have single point attachments to the fuselage. Not exactly an airworthy arrangement. Neither can I see a moveable rudder or elevator. Weird.

Alternatively…

Something built to go on a float in a parade, perhaps?

From the hand shown on the RHS – if it was designed for a pilot – It was by Snow White Industries for her seven colleagues…

……………and I’m still in the ‘model’ camp despite the passage of nearly three years!

Plus the fact that it doesn’t appear to have any undercarriage, although there is a wheel lying beside the tail…….

I suspect that is why it is in the long grass, no one was ever able to fly it out so the grass just grew around it.

That is the obvious conclusion, isn’t it? Seems inconceivable that didn’t occur to the designer, or at least while they were building it. :rolleyes:

… How the hell did one get in? Every place you might stand to lift a foot into the cockpit seems to have a wing in the way, and a fabric-covered wing at that…

I suspect that is why it is in the long grass, no one was ever able to fly it out so the grass just grew around it.

Eddit. I wrote the post below before I saw any of this year’s posts – is there some of dbase/time error today? In the light of them, I see that it is a ring. Oddly invisible (In part) in the original image. Circular section fuse – very best for rubber power!

I don’t think that the ring is a ring at all, but a foil of some sort mounted to a strut on the fifth wing.

Very odd tip design too.

Maybe the foil, or perhaps ‘sixth wing’, is directing some air to the fin, since the chance of any air making it the whole way through the array would be, at best, slim.

OK, so we now know what it is, have a plausible idea of how it was powered, and know where the cockpit was. I keep being drawn back to John A’s question in post #5: How the hell did one get in? Every place you might stand to lift a foot into the cockpit seems to have a wing in the way, and a fabric-covered wing at that…