Update on another Tr. IX Spitfire.

Sigh…

Hasn’t it occourred to anyone that the reason that the title ‘Flying Legends’ hasn’t been defined (by TFC etc) as including or, indeed, excluding certain types is because whatever suits can be included (or not).

The show that came before was called ‘Classic Fighter’; a great show, with a good number of aircraft that weren’t fighters and some fighters that weren’t classic.

Flying Legends can mean what you want it to mean. Ask, pay, provide… Or live with someone else’s choice!

Cheers / Salut

I think you have to understand the difference between ‘Duxford’ shows and Flying Legends. The trainer Spitfires are ‘proper’ Spitfires but they are trainers and as such are passed over in favour of combat configuration machines. The Connie is just plainly hugely impressive and was the star of the show for many people I spoke to over the weekend.

…and the Dragon Rapides….???

Any Spitfie is a legend in my book, and the Grace Spitfire more than most, on account of its history.

Quite bizarre notes on the Spitfires . Surely Spitfires that have seen combat to be converted post war into TR.9 configuration are as important as Spitfires that didn’t see combat at all but are single seaters !
Maybe we should insist that the PR Spits do flypasts at 20,000 plus to reflect their true role!

How come Ml407 isnt classed as a legend when it is recorded as shooting down the first enemy aircraft on d-day!And as carolyn pointed out on saturday night,it was in the same flight on that day as MK732 which shot down another german aircraft.It would have been nice to reunite these two combat veterans in this 60th anniversary year.

But surely ML407 is a legend of both the second world war and certainly a legend of the modern preservation scene, anyway, she displayed to another appreciative audience (near Rugby IIRC) on Saturday night, see the ‘Rapides at Duxford’ thread, you can never tire from seeing a spitfire, even if you have seen several of them already earlier in the day 😉

Whilst it seems ok for Duxford to accept 2 seaters for large Spit formations (publicity?) it seems not ok to have them as a 3 or 4 aircraft display item. I was told (at the time) that they were not viewed by the organisers of Legends as “proper” Spitfires.

I think you have to understand the difference between ‘Duxford’ shows and Flying Legends. The trainer Spitfires are ‘proper’ Spitfires but they are trainers and as such are passed over in favour of combat configuration machines. The Connie is just plainly hugely impressive and was the star of the show for many people I spoke to over the weekend.

They are more sensitive in pitch than a single seater but in the hands of such people as Paul Day, Anthony Hodgson and Carolyn they can put on an excellent safe display. Whilst it seems ok for Duxford to accept 2 seaters for large Spit formations (publicity?) it seems not ok to have them as a 3 or 4 aircraft display item. I was told (at the time) that they were not viewed by the organisers of Legends as “proper” Spitfires. However it would seem that times change and that its ok for a Connie to appear now!! It would seem that Duxford are quite happy to have just Carolyns displaying – believe shes booked again for the Sept show. Now doubt when HFL’s 2 seater is up and running that will be given a slot.
Just how do you define a Legend? Perhaps they should actually make the title “Propellor Legends”. Still, thats nitpicking – still a super show.

Why?

Just why aren’t the two seat Spits appearing at Legends anymore?

When I look back at the videos of the early Legends, PV202 & ML407 seemed to feature quite a bit but from about 1999 seem to have not been booked. :confused:

Granted, PV202 has been out of commision since 2000, but the Grace Spit has been available and PV202 should be back in the air in the not too distant future.

I seem to recall reading on these boards something to the effect that they weren’t as popular with the pilots as they didn’t have quite the agility of the single seat variant, but I’ve never heard any comments from pilots to back this up? (The only thing I do recall is the late Norman Lees telling Alan Decadinet that they were more sensitive in pitch than the single seaters.)

Can someone clarify the exact reason?

Cheers

Paul

Suggested a 2 seater formation to Duxford organisers for any of their shows this year and was not met with much enthusiasim – no chance at Legends as 2 seaters are not WW2 or proper Spitfires apparently.
The tunnel arrangement looks the same as ML407 and PT462.
One last comment, that **** Melton 2 seater was started way back in the 80’s in Charles Churches time as a scratch build, believe the serial was something like DM001. It was sold to Harry Stenger who recently started to finish the project however to give the aircraft some “history” and covenance (not to mention extra $ value) he puchased a Spitfire firewall with the MH367 plate on it. They popped the plate off the firewall and stuck it on the 2 seater and hey presto an aircraft rebuild with instant history! Somewhat frowned upon by certain people in the UK historic aircraft rebuilding circles I would think!

‘Twas worth a shot….!

Not very likely I suspect.

“Dear Mr Grey

Loved the Spitfire tailchase routine at Flying Legends 2004. Would it be possible to get a formation of two-seater Spits for next year? ML407, ICA 161/PV202, PT462, MJ627 etc etc…

Yours grovelingly,

D. DaMan”

😀

Erm. Oh dear. Mis remembered.

Gah… (Chiz)

but with a clear ‘tunnel’ between the cockpits which is a change from the D1ck Melton / Nick Grace mod…

A change? It looks exactly the same to me…

but with a clear ‘tunnel’ between the cockpits which is a change from the D1ck Melton / Nick Grace mod…

Thanks for sharing, Peter. Another one with the ‘Grace’ canopy mod, I see. Was this one of the D1ck Melton fuselages?

Yes indeed this is a D1ck Melton fuselage.

Mark