Uruguay to Buy Portuguese Frigates?

Nice site that Portugese one, gee they have a lot of sail training ships.

Yeah

Just a pity it is not updated… 🙁

For instance, the F481 that was decommissioned in 2004 is still listed has a operarional unit :diablo: :diablo:

Also the S-166 Delfim Sub was decommissioned in December 2005 😀

Yes, I think it’s one of the Spanish LPDs

it seems to me more like the Spanish Class Galicia Amphibious Ship rather a Italian ship….
Ayala

Nice site that Portugese one, gee they have a lot of sail training ships. And looking at this picture

is that taken on the flight deck of an Italian San class or even the Garibaldi itself?

Also I don’t think this person is very well liked, have a look at what is on the back of his helmet 😉

From the official Portuguese Navy Site

www.marinha.pt

A very nice picture of the F-481 NRP Comandante Hermenegildo Capelo, sister ship of the João Belo and Sacadura Cabral.
The F-481 was decommisioned from the PN in April 2004.

F481

Swerve: sorry, I was meaning the Baltic nations (Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania) who were suggested as possible customers for the used F-16s, but I was suggesting they go for the Gripens on offer (allegedly on offer) instead. Portugals F-16 have a good few years left in them, and any replacement would probably end up being F-35s or similar – Gripens are a little short ranged, though the -N model appears a good aircraft. I think the problem is that Portugal have relatively little air threat, so are looking to reduce the total number of fighters, so I doubt there would be any issues of a mixed fleet (I doubt there is enough funding around!).

At the moment the FAP F-16 fleet consists of :

-19 F-16 OCU flying ( out of 20 original,, 1 fell some years ago), which were bought new in 1993

-25 F-16A bought second hand to upgrade to MLU pattern in 2000 I believe ( plus 5 for spares). Since then the program has evolved at a snail’s pace, so at the moment only 4 of these are flying, and 3 of them are undergoing modifications. The rest of them are still in crates.

Reportedly 40 MLU kits were bought, as the original plans called for upgrading the whole 2 fleets.

The main problem is, as always, money. FAP already had problems in manning just the original 20-aircraft strong fleet, due to lots of pilots contantly leaving for the civilian sector. When they started the whole 2nd fleet/MLU program it was hoped that knews how to sort things out in the future with the doubling of the # of acft, but the problems and delays surrounding the program since then suggest ( at least to me) that the process was poorly-thought of.

Some reports in the press say it will be the OCUs to be sold after upgrading, other that it will be the A/Bs ( Peace Atlantis II), so things are very shady at the moment. Still, the plan is to upgrade all of them.

As the first batch has suffered some structural strengthning, their expected lifetime is bigger.

Ja:

…

As for the F-16s, I think the suggestion was that they would a few of the soon to be retired Gripens from Sweden, possibly with a couple of Sk60s to help train some pilots. They would probably be a lot cheaper (and newer) than the F-16s – could be provided for free, and training in Sweden for a nominal fee (genuinely nominal, Sweden seems to actually like helping its Baltic neighbours). A possibility for the F-16s could be Thailand, who already use older F-16s, and a few more would probably be quite welcome.

That’s interesting. I was wondering why the Portuguese would want to get rid of some F-16s, since they don’t have many (39 last I heard – 20 new & 25 used bought, 5 of the latter knocked down for spares, 1 lost: 32 A, 7 B). But what would be the point in selling a few, & replacing them by a new type? Better, surely, if you want to get a new type into service, to dispose of the lot, & go over completely to Gripen. Or are they getting rid of the older ones, & keeping the newer airframes which have had the MLU?

[edit]
Oops, just saw that they’re putting up the first batch of F-16s for sale. Hmm. But they were bought new in 1994, & the later batch were second-hand. Curiouser & curiouser. Were the second-hand ones only lightly used by the USAF?

Ah, I see … the second batch are the MLU ones. Upgraded & re-engined when bought.

Maybe Ecuador ? Nowadays they operate Kfirs (and have some Jags in storage).

Again keep in mind that we’re talking about 2010-2011 here. Who knows what changes might happen down there meanwhile. Even Venezuela… 😀

Uruguay has a nice webpage.

http://www.armada.gub.uy/

Chile bought 18 F-16 MLU from the Netherlands for 180 million dollars. So 10 + 18 for now

Colombia is highly interested in get some F-16 from the US, Argentina doesn´t know if they are interested in some Mirage 2000 (brazilian way) or some F-16, and nobody more can get that planes in the zone.

As for the F-16s, I think the suggestion was that they would a few of the soon to be retired Gripens from Sweden, possibly with a couple of Sk60s to help train some pilots. They would probably be a lot cheaper (and newer) than the F-16s – could be provided for free, and training in Sweden for a nominal fee (genuinely nominal, Sweden seems to actually like helping its Baltic neighbours). A possibility for the F-16s could be Thailand, who already use older F-16s, and a few more would probably be quite welcome.

Maybe also South America ? Still, it’s too far away to tell anything for real. Remember these F-16 would olny be available circa 2010-2011, so who knows what might change till then.

Interesting thoughts there Ed

Ja:

Uruguay (Commandant Riviere) class light ASW/patrol frigates
Displacement: 2,250 tons full load
Dimensions: 102.7 x 11.8 x 4.35 meters (337 x 39 x 14 feet)
Propulsion: 4 diesels, 2 shafts, 16,000 shp, 26 knots
Crew: 159
Radar: DRBV 22A air search
Sonar: SQS-17 hull, DUBA 3 attack
Fire Control: DRBC 32C
EW: ARBR 16 intercept
Armament: 4 MM38 Exocet SSM, 2 100mm/55 DP, 2 40mm/70 AA, 1 305 mm
ASW mortar, 2 triple 21.5 inch torpedo tubes
Ex-French.

Number Name Year Homeport Notes
1 Uruguay 1963/90 Montevideo Ex-C.Bourdais
2 General Artigas 1962/88 Montevideo Ex-V.Schoelcher
3 Montevideo 1962/91 Montevideo Ex-A.Charner

Source: http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/ – (under Uruguay)

I agree about the Pumas, though I suspect that for most eastern European countries, Bell 210s might make more sense (completely rebuilt and zero timed UH-1Hs).

As for the F-16s, I think the suggestion was that they would a few of the soon to be retired Gripens from Sweden, possibly with a couple of Sk60s to help train some pilots. They would probably be a lot cheaper (and newer) than the F-16s – could be provided for free, and training in Sweden for a nominal fee (genuinely nominal, Sweden seems to actually like helping its Baltic neighbours). A possibility for the F-16s could be Thailand, who already use older F-16s, and a few more would probably be quite welcome.

Hmmm according to my reference material Uraguay has only one that is Fited for but now with the Exocet Missiles, it was the lead ship of the Class and was transfered to the MdU back in 89 and it was thought back then that another two would be bought. I can see the logic in having these ships, perhaps one would become serviceable and the other used for spares, thus having two ships of the smae class on front line service.

As for the rest of the Portugese equipment on offer:

Puma’s, I can see going to IAR who would then upgrade them and offer them to Eastern European forces for commonality with the NATO force, perhaps even the Baltic states might be interested in them.

Alouette’s: Most definately a civilian sale here, these have used up their military life and are old now, the only practicle use they could be is of warbird collections or spares to countries that have these units in service.

F-16’s, this is the tricky part, getting US aproval for sale to a country that the US is favourable of, Indonesia could use them but I doubt highly that they would make a bid for them since they are more interested in Su’s and are looking at retiring their Falcons as it is.Pakistan might make a play for them but considering that the US are back in favour with Karachi, they’d probably be more interested in New Falcons rather than old ones. So that leaves me with one final thought, and that is of the Baltic states. It has recently been announced that they are interested in forming air forces of their own, particularly since they are NATO members. A handfull of F-16’s even if they are old, would be a great starter point for them and their intergration into the service.

Are you sure it is actually Romania that is interested, rather than IAR?

The portuguese MoD told a newspaper ” there already have been contacts with Romania since this country also uses Pumas” and ” [regarding the frigates] it was the uruguyan ambassador that contacted us and things are now between both MoDs”.

Neptune, I can’t find any source at hand but I seem to recall seeing some figures about the M-frigates that were just like that. It’s been said that the original option, two short hull OHPs,would cost nearly that in bringing them up to operational status.

Also according to todays news, the 12 F-16s to be sold will be from th first batch (Peace Atlantis I), i.e. the OCU birds who have been flying in FAPs hands since 1994.

Anyway, it’s best to wait and see, you wouldn’t believe the amount of rumours ( compared to “normal” times) that have been popping up on the this press about this defence matters in the last few weeks 😉

Are you sure it is actually Romania that is interested, rather than IAR? They sometimes buy up Pumas to refurbish (they built some themselves under license as the IAR-330) and sell on – I remember reading that some middle eastern countries (cannot remember if it was UAE or Oman, I think it was one of them) were interested in procuring refurbished IAR-330s. They also did the refurb work on the RAFs ex South African Pumas, so I would not rule that out again (given that the Pumas are still giving valued service for the RAF).

Uruguay can pay a simbolic price for the ships. Almost all their fleet is product of donations.

And if the F-16´s are of the second batch (ex usaf planes) i can´t see that almost 300 millions, because you can´t sell some 1969 vintage Pumas for a great price, and the first 19 F-16´s they received are in very good shape, can´t believe they are going to sell their best conserved planes.

rgd the F-16s for what I know they are former US ANGs, that were received in packages but never totally assembled, so they never flew in the PoAF

No, I think he means that Portugal are putting those up for sale, and Uruguay is buying just the frigates. The Allouettes would probably be sold publically, though they are quite old. Not sure who would buy the Pumas – the RAF might (they have bought up old Pumas before, to bolster the existing fleet).

Correct, I was only talking about the TWO frigates 😉

rgd the PUMAS, Romania has been reported as showing interest

Uruguay can pay a simbolic price for the ships. Almost all their fleet is product of donations.

And if the F-16´s are of the second batch (ex usaf planes) i can´t see that almost 300 millions, because you can´t sell some 1969 vintage Pumas for a great price, and the first 19 F-16´s they received are in very good shape, can´t believe they are going to sell their best conserved planes.

No, I think he means that Portugal are putting those up for sale, and Uruguay is buying just the frigates. The Allouettes would probably be sold publically, though they are quite old. Not sure who would buy the Pumas – the RAF might (they have bought up old Pumas before, to bolster the existing fleet).