US ASAT Capabilities

crobato, as mentioned by ISRO official, normally the technique of avoiding collision with others is employed while launching satellites, i.e. the path of the launch rocket is not to intersect any other sat’s path– or if it does, the sat should be calculated to being absent there at that point of time.

However, in the ASAT test conducted by China, the rocket was set upon a ‘deliberate’ collision course. Like all rocket launches globally, it would have been tracked also, but Not command guided by powerful ground radars (like Arrow’s Greenpine or Aegis’s Raytheon radars). The rocket may have used terminal homing, in case the satellite was radioed to maneuver (by 20 kms as you said); however, in a disturbance free atmosphere, targeting a 20 km deviation is achievable given that BMDs achieve an interception against targets that cover a few kms per second.

The seeker is always needed because collisions themselves are very difficult to achieve especially when they are that small. The ASAT itself weighs no more than 40 to 50kg and that is something can only be as big as a chair, against a target that is only 3m2 or roughly 10 feet long. Considering the vast distances and speeds, even a slightest miscalculation or deviation caused by unknown factors would have meant a miss. Your INS have to be that precise, I can’t imagine this thing being done without a very precise atomic clock and gyroscope—this alone means major implications about our beliefs on the sheer accuracy of all Chinese missiles. The seeker should make up for any last moment variation and buffer for errors. For it to be that precise, the seeker must be at least on the infrared.

Simply said the ASAT never assumed an orbital path because it was never seen or tracked in the western hemisphere and never even when past the horizon. The entire ascent and collision was done completely in one sweep in within the eastern hemisphere.

Give it up. You’re back tracking.

And according to Richard Fisher, applied to a ballistic missile defense system, it would be a step ahead anything the US has conducted.

crobato, as mentioned by ISRO official, normally the technique of avoiding collision with others is employed while launching satellites, i.e. the path of the launch rocket is not to intersect any other sat’s path– or if it does, the sat should be calculated to being absent there at that point of time.

However, in the ASAT test conducted by China, the rocket was set upon a ‘deliberate’ collision course. Like all rocket launches globally, it would have been tracked also, but Not command guided by powerful ground radars (like Arrow’s Greenpine or Aegis’s Raytheon radars). The rocket may have used terminal homing, in case the satellite was radioed to maneuver (by 20 kms as you said); however, in a disturbance free atmosphere, targeting a 20 km deviation is achievable given that BMDs achieve an interception against targets that cover a few kms per second.

That sounded like collision of satellites is a very likely thing – just launch them into the same orbit and they will more than likely collide in no time. In fact, the opposite is very true. Ever heard of an accidental collision of satellites in space?

They did not go in the same orbit and in fact the ASAT’s trajectory was transversal of the target. Meaning, it hit the target at the side of the direction the target is traveling, as the target suddenly ascended during the last arc of its orbit.

If the ASAT went into the same orbit as the target it would have been tracked. In fact, the FY was being tracked in the US because there was some foreknowledge that an ASAT might be taking place. It finished the last orbit alone, and when it came out from that hemisphere, it was already in pieces, and the calculation of its destruction based on the orbit of the debris
was that it took place at least 20km from the its last known orbital altitude. So the entire rise and collision of the ASAT took place without the vehicle making half an orbit.

The orbit of the satellite would have brought it over central to east China, but the ASAT rocket was launched at southwest China, and that means it has an intersecting path.

Actually, what the ISRO official meant was something similar to the Russian’s version of ASAT where a co-orbital killer vehicle is launched into the same orbit as the target satellite, and is then slowly guided by ground tracking station, into striking range of the target – a maneuver similar to spacecrafts docking. Destruction of the target would, in this case, rely on explosives charges rather than k.e. of the killer vehicle.

Its not a bad idea and but generally an orbital platform can also be preempted by a ground or air launched ASAT. Also the number of strikes would also be limited.

sealordlawrence and sferrin, as the boldened quote by ISRO official shows, the ASAT test was nothing different than launching a rocket into a predetermined orbit to avoid collisions with sats of other nations. Only in the Chinese case, the orbit was occupied, which led to collision.

That sounded like collision of satellites is a very likely thing – just launch them into the same orbit and they will more than likely collide in no time. In fact, the opposite is very true. Ever heard of an accidental collision of satellites in space?

Actually, what the ISRO official meant was something similar to the Russian’s version of ASAT where a co-orbital killer vehicle is launched into the same orbit as the target satellite, and is then slowly guided by ground tracking station, into striking range of the target – a maneuver similar to spacecrafts docking. Destruction of the target would, in this case, rely on explosives charges rather than k.e. of the killer vehicle.

sealordlawrence and sferrin, as the boldened quote by ISRO official shows, the ASAT test was nothing different than launching a rocket into a predetermined orbit to avoid collisions with sats of other nations. Only in the Chinese case, the orbit was occupied, which led to collision.

Its definitely not a collision. In the last moment, the target satellite fired its rockets and moved up by 20km. That adds a potential 20x20x20, or 8000 square kilometers of space where the satellite could be not from its tracked position. The Chinese KKV is definitely self guided in order to effect this sort of interception, or you must have one hell of a real time tracking and command guidance system.

That’s why his logic blowsback in the way he didn’t intend it to go.

Unguided, untracked and all by a mathematical shot in the dark on a target zooming around the Earth. And that’s not some feat in itself?

Would be if it were true- which it isn’t.

sealordlawrence and sferrin, as the boldened quote by ISRO official shows, the ASAT test was nothing different than launching a rocket into a predetermined orbit to avoid collisions with sats of other nations. Only in the Chinese case, the orbit was occupied, which led to collision.

it was not only guided but also had a KKV, which allowed it to catch and destroy a satellite travelling at over 7000 m/s. can you should an unguided rocket to a fixed target 100 km away and hit it?

Unguided, untracked and all by a mathematical shot in the dark on a target zooming around the Earth. And that’s not some feat in itself?

sealordlawrence and sferrin, as the boldened quote by ISRO official shows, the ASAT test was nothing different than launching a rocket into a predetermined orbit to avoid collisions with sats of other nations. Only in the Chinese case, the orbit was occupied, which led to collision.

Yeah, but it was still guided.:rolleyes:

Which still means that it was guided, what do you think they just point it upwards and let it go.

sealordlawrence and sferrin, as the boldened quote by ISRO official shows, the ASAT test was nothing different than launching a rocket into a predetermined orbit to avoid collisions with sats of other nations. Only in the Chinese case, the orbit was occupied, which led to collision.

The Chinese ASAT missile was launched on a predetermined path that was timed to coincide with another known path of one of its abandoned satellites.

The following is from a news report :-

The kinetic kill mechanism ensures that a killer rocket crashes head-on into a target moving at 28,000 km/hr. It adds its own speed to impact, creating a hypersonic shock wave that shreds the target into metallic confetti. The killer is positioned in the collision course by tracking the target with the help of radars and other monitoring equipment.

“We use same type of calculations before every satellite is launched. This is done to position our satellite in a crowded space without causing inconvenience to other vehicles using the same area. The same method can be used to position a killer vehicle near a target to destroy it,” top ISRO sources said.

In its space war exercise, China used similar methods to pinpoint the target and launched the killer using a ballistic missile before homing it into it. “With the existing technology India can also perfect this mechanism within no time. But we believe that space must be kept out of military dreams,” sources said.

Reference :

Satellite killer technology within reach

Which still means that it was guided, what do you think they just point it upwards and let it go.:rolleyes:

The Chinese ASAT missile was launched on a predetermined path that was timed to coincide with another known path of one of its abandoned satellites.

The following is from a news report :-

[i]The kinetic kill mechanism ensures

How’s it do that if it isn’t guided?

The Chinese ASAT missile was launched on a predetermined path that was timed to coincide with another known path of one of its abandoned satellites.

The following is from a news report :-

The kinetic kill mechanism ensures that a killer rocket crashes head-on into a target moving at 28,000 km/hr. It adds its own speed to impact, creating a hypersonic shock wave that shreds the target into metallic confetti. The killer is positioned in the collision course by tracking the target with the help of radars and other monitoring equipment.

“We use same type of calculations before every satellite is launched. This is done to position our satellite in a crowded space without causing inconvenience to other vehicles using the same area. The same method can be used to position a killer vehicle near a target to destroy it,” top ISRO sources said.

In its space war exercise, China used similar methods to pinpoint the target and launched the killer using a ballistic missile before homing it into it. “With the existing technology India can also perfect this mechanism within no time. But we believe that space must be kept out of military dreams,” sources said.

Reference :

Satellite killer technology within reach

If that was the case, it must have been one unbelievably lucky shot. Following that logic, no guidance system would be required when firing missiles against fixed land-based targets even if they are hundreds of kilometres away, since the missiles’s path is already known.

Yep. GPS is just a fraud ‘cuz everybody knows where the ground is. :diablo:

Actually the Chinese ASAT test was not guided. An abandoned weather satellite was chosen, whose path was known after which the ASAT was fired to coincide with the satellite on its path only. No tracking or guidance mechanisms were used.

If that was the case, it must have been one unbelievably lucky shot. Following that logic, no guidance system would be required when firing missiles against fixed land-based targets even if they are hundreds of kilometres away, since the missiles’s path is already known.

Actually the Chinese ASAT test was not guided. An abandoned weather satellite was chosen, whose path was known after which the ASAT was fired to coincide with the satellite on its path only. No tracking or guidance mechanisms were used.

do you have any evidence to back your claim? Didn’t think so.

Actually the Chinese ASAT test was not guided. An abandoned weather satellite was chosen, whose path was known after which the ASAT was fired to coincide with the satellite on its path only. No tracking or guidance mechanisms were used.
That is the reason of Mr. Madhavan Nair’s comment that the test can be done by India also given that its rockets can reach the altitude. The International community also was not concerned about any new technological capability acquired by China, but about the debris that was strewn which could damage other satellites.

It may be said again that the KALI-5000 is a microwave beam system and Not a Laser system. Its function will be to “‘fry'” the electronics on board satellites or ballistic missiles by collimating a concentrated EMI pulse of the order of a few gigawatts.

Unguided? Is that suppose to say it wasn’t an accomplishment? It’s not like the missile and satellite were stationary and once inch distance away when the test was conducted.

And all these anti-missile system tests including India’s recently didn’t have pre-planned trajectories for best chance for success? You’ve only shown that you can spin anything into a negative.

Well it’s been about a year and no one’s satellite was damaged from debris so I would say that story was bull as well since there’s more garbage out there in orbit from others countries. Funny this debris is supposedly hazardous and dangerous to the world yet the Earth in its orbit travels through trillions upon trillions of pieces of debris every year and rarely to nothing seems to happen. More bull. More spin.

Actually, as per the Chief of the Indian Space Research Organization, Mr. Madhavan Nair, such a test is not difficult. As per this news report, he has stated that it is “no big deal” for India to also perform such a test as its rockets too can reach that altitude.

It may be noted that as of 2000, India was developing a beam weapon that could potentially severely damage the electronics components of satellites and ballistic missiles by sending a highly concentrated pulse of EMI.
The KALI-5000 has already been used in the study of the trajectory of ballistic missiles, and in the testing of the vulnerability of electromagnetics in the Tejas combat jet.

This beam weapon need not be placed into space, but can be on the ground itself. However, after 2000, work on this system has been classified.

Reference :-

http://www.indianexpress.com/res/web/pIe/ie/daily/19990819/ige19013.html

Sorry but developing nations are known to dish a lot of bull. Especially in regards to international rivalry rhetoric between your two nations. So I’ll go with the facts and not statements or what’s said on paper.