US Policy Discussion

😀 😀 LOL 😀 😀

What a funny Hamburglar!

aww it got deleted.. do our mods have no sense of adult themed humor? :rolleyes:

Our “humourless” Mods are conscious of the fact that some members of these forums are children and that some adult members like to look at this site with their children.

The internet is awash with adult-themed humour sites. I visit some of them regularly myself.

This isn’t one of them.

Subject closed – if really you want to argue, do so by PM.

Thank you.

GA.

SOC the last time I checked the Cuban Missile Crisis was the result of RUSSIAN actions…..not American.

Yeah… blame the victims. Russian missiles were placed in Cuba to BALANCE US missiles in Turkey. If the US had no missiles in Turkey there would have been no Russian missiles in Cuba.

but the Soviet supply of Cuba with not only IRBM’s, but SAM’s and other such hardware was a rather aggressive move,

So there were no other US missiles in Turkey? NO US SAMS protecting IRBM sites? Hahahahahaha.

and one which would give the Soviets a huge advantage over the U.S. if war were to ever break out.

Yeah, whereas the US missiles in Turkey were a huge burden that only reduced US military power in Europe.

Get real. Both systems were massively destabilising, but the US would not remove theirs unless forced to… Russian missiles in Cuba is what forced them. It was the best thing to happen during the period and greatly reduced the chances of nuclear war.

The crisis was handled how it should have been, and as to be expected when faced with serious pressure, the Russians backed down.

The Russians only backed down because their bluff was called. Spies had shown the west that the bomber gap and the missile gap were false and that the US had more nuclear missiles and nuclear bombers than the Soviets did. The Soviets had to back down, but they also poured billions into rearmament to redress that imbalance.

The Rumsfeld Story, reported by yours truly!

😀 😀 LOL 😀 😀

What a funny Hamburglar!

I think the best thing about USian Policy is Rumsfeld’s 1000 kung-fu fighting techniques. My Favs are…

1. Drunken Temple Boxing
2. Twin Cobra Fist 🙂

I don’t know about Rumsfeld’s kung fu techniques, tell me more.

I think the best thing about USian Policy is Rumsfeld’s 1000 kung-fu fighting techniques. My Favs are…

1. Drunken Temple Boxing
2. Twin Cobra Fist 🙂

and another one!

Oh God you’re killing me! 😀

LOL:D

and another one!

🙂

LOL:D

🙂

Why not? Surely we’d be better off dealing with them politically and economically than dealing with them militarily.

how u deal with them Politically/economically that i ask?. Just in Iran case u have to liberate alot of people just like in Irak in different parts of Middleast or let them do the job without backing the other side. there is alot of other things involved. and how can socialist/leftist. countries fit in capitalist world view?.

I don’t see how expanding relations with some of the biggest consumer bases in the world would provide no benefit.

how would u expand relations with them? what product or service u want to sell to them that they either cannot produce cheaply or buy it from EU/SK/Japan with better quality. and they have totally different geopolitical priorities. u have to make alot of compromises.

Opposite?

just take example of Mexico. what do u think does US needs Mexico more or Mexico needs US more in 2006?. there are three constant things. debt/interest/inflation. that can kill any free market economy. and in order to keep the first two downs u have to keep the third one down.so u need cheap products/natural resources and personal services. who do u think will do farming for u or cleaning or construction with those wages? certainly not legal people with all employer expenses.

Why not? It’s not like they want all that much to do with us anyway. How can we be faulted for giving them what they want?

again what kind of reduce relations? first explain this. EU/Japan/SK products are more popular in US than the otherway US products in those countries even if they are expensive.
u are going basically against free market enterprize.

Eh?

I think u live in dream world. thats why u put impractical solutions and logic.

I really don’t see what’s ethically wrong with securing our border and making it that much harder for people to cross it illegally.

I agree that drugs are not solely an internal problem, my point was to say that I am not currently focusing on the internal issues, but rather the foreign policy element of the problem.

i agree there is nothing wrong patrolling your border what is wrong is exploting illegal workers who are working for you own well being when you entice them, legalize them is the true human way of dealing with the problem.

I guess also everything is not only the fault of the US and great part of the problem is Latin America`s fault to adress the wealth distribution problem but the main problem i see is the US has become an obstacle for Latin America`s development with such miope policies that is the reason Brazil and the whole of south america do not want to sign a free trade agreement with the US, NAFTA does not work because the model has not passed into a more realistic economic and democratic integration model, and while that model continues like that is unlikely Brazil and Argentina and the rest of south america want to become part of that agreement.

I really don’t see what’s ethically wrong with securing our border and making it that much harder for people to cross it illegally.

I agree that drugs are not solely an internal problem, my point was to say that I am not currently focusing on the internal issues, but rather the foreign policy element of the problem.

Duh, where do you think it is now? 😀

hush you, it was in Military Aviation 😀

okay back to US policies. After lots of talks with our fellow forumer Rush the Distilled. A preferable state should be one that’s authoritarian or at the other end, more libertarian leaning. The latter probably being more appealing. Me thinks there’s some horrid long term problems with the Neocons visions. Too foreign policy oriented, too unilateral, too unipolar.. very little thinking on sustainment of the nation.. too Israeli centric too (well the Neocons seem to mostly be Jews.. Jews of Eastern European origins, perhaps the most opressed of all jewish gropus, but also, probably one of the more militaristic and bitter).

😉

Obviously the drug problem needs to be addressed internally as well, as in combating drug use and cleaning out the dealers and supply chains, but that’s not a foreign policy issue from that standpoint. I was focusing primarily on foreign policy, not internal issues.

The operative word is “illegal”. So there is nothing wrong with incarcerating or deporting them. I’d opt for the latter, the former puts an unnecessary burden on the criminal justice system and the taxpayer.

Large-scale fines could help to stem some of that, perhaps in the form of income tax evasion charges and fines, plus having ot pay the back taxes you would have paid had the workers been legal.

I have nothing against immigrants from any nationality, provided they have the courtesy to do it legally. If you choose the illegal route, then I have no sympathy for you and you should be deported immediately.

I also have no problems with a guest worker plan, but again, that’s a legal solution. If you choose to still enter illegally, the deportation machine is waiting for you.

I view the illegal immigration problem as a potential solution for the homeless. I’d propose to set up housing for the homeless and provide them with the jobs vacated by the illegals. It cleans up the streets, gives these people jobs and housing, and gets the illegals out of the country.

In theory it sounds very good but reality is not like that because drugs are not an internal problem.

The US demand for drugs fuels corruption in the police forces of Mexico, central America and Colombia and other south american countries.
Drug related violance in the US-Mexican border is fueled by the US demand for drugs.

Illegal imigration of workers is fueled by the US companies offering jobs and because the same companies working in Latin america specially in Mexico and Central America pay less to their latin American workers so if you see those companies want to reduce salaries in the US and Latin America and there also you have outsourcing, that problem only can be addressed by NAFTA if it tries to follow more an EU economic integration model rather than a chaotic and profit making policy not by making walls in the border that any way will be crossed because the illegal workers business is profitable to the US companies hiring them as well for the smugglers so there is lots of money involved the only way to stop it is by political and economical means not by a wall patrolled by bunch of racist Minuteman vigilatees

I guess UCAVs, Tanks against Civilians well is a good match 😉 believe me the problem of immigration cannot be solved in a globalized world without addressing uneven development if you have poor latin american countries and a wealthy US there is going to be illegal workers for a very long time.

Duh, where do you think it is now? 😀

hmm, shouldn’t this be moved to GD?

[color=red]NOTE: this was yanked out of another thread, so please excuse some of the inconsistencies.[/color]

Obviously the drug problem needs to be addressed internally as well, as in combating drug use and cleaning out the dealers and supply chains, but that’s not a foreign policy issue from that standpoint. I was focusing primarily on foreign policy, not internal issues.

many incarcerated just by the fact they are illegal.

The operative word is “illegal”. So there is nothing wrong with incarcerating or deporting them. I’d opt for the latter, the former puts an unnecessary burden on the criminal justice system and the taxpayer.

Big corporations will continue using illegal workers simply because they are cheaper and that won`t stop all the explotation of the illegal immigrants.

Large-scale fines could help to stem some of that, perhaps in the form of income tax evasion charges and fines, plus having ot pay the back taxes you would have paid had the workers been legal.

I have nothing against immigrants from any nationality, provided they have the courtesy to do it legally. If you choose the illegal route, then I have no sympathy for you and you should be deported immediately.

I also have no problems with a guest worker plan, but again, that’s a legal solution. If you choose to still enter illegally, the deportation machine is waiting for you.

I view the illegal immigration problem as a potential solution for the homeless. I’d propose to set up housing for the homeless and provide them with the jobs vacated by the illegals. It cleans up the streets, gives these people jobs and housing, and gets the illegals out of the country.

First off, profuse apologies, this thread got massively sidetracked and I certainly helped it along. So, no worries, I’ll take the time tomorrow to split this into two threads, preserving the integrity of the initial debate, and moving our off-topic ramblings into a new thread.

Moving on!

That’s partly the point, it’s strictly hypothetical. Guess you won’t be voting for me, eh? 😀

To gain control over the illegal immigration problem.

SOC i think your Geopolitics are wrong.

Illegal immigration won`t stop in that way let`s see some hypotetical and real examples.

You can have UCAVs and Predators doing some patrolling in the Mexican-US Border and then what?

Drugs is a consumption-demand problem the US is addicted to drugs thanks to people like Janis Joplin`s motto of SEX , DRUGS and ROCK and ROLL besides your culture of rappers.

Already the illegal workers are mistreated , cheated and living in poverty accross the US and many incarcerated just by the fact they are illegal.

Many illegal workers do pay taxes.

UCAVs can patrol for drug dealers, stop them but while there is corruption and demand man believe me you won`t stop drugs even having F-22s and M-1s patrolling.

Must likely out come well Drugs will continue flowing, many people will continue overstaying their visas and more poeple will die in the US-Mexican border due to the increasing Racist view upon latin immigrants.

Big corporations will continue using illegal workers simply because they are cheaper and that won`t stop all the explotation of the illegal immigrants.

The solution is to my point of view a common Military program with Mexico to patrol the border to stop Terrorists, change the cultural values of the US youth, a common currency in NAFTA including central america and increase in outsourcing to Mexico and Central America. Work for a realistic immigration program with Mexico including free movement of people and a standardization of salaries in Mexico and central america with the US and Canada, the true reason people immigrates is because you have the same companies in the US and Latin America paying two different salaries lower in Latin America and higher in the US for the same jobs offered by the same companies.

I know that UCAVs are not the solution you need to work to legalize all the illegal workers to know who is a potential terrorist but the vast majority of illegal workers are just looking for jobs and if you offer them a chance to legalize their situation all will want to be legalized and have a proper work permit and pay taxes.

Any way illegal workers contribute economically in the US but are the less protected workers blamed for all the ills that the US has created by it self, the basic theory behind arming the border is Hitler`s mein kamp.

on what basis?

Why not? Surely we’d be better off dealing with them politically and economically than dealing with them militarily.

u will gain nothing from this in long term or even in the medium term.

I don’t see how expanding relations with some of the biggest consumer bases in the world would provide no benefit.

u can do nothing with those countries. in fact the opposite is true.

Opposite?

for what reasons and benefit.

Why not? It’s not like they want all that much to do with us anyway. How can we be faulted for giving them what they want?

It seems stealth fighter is in front Mig.

Eh?