US/UK Hardware

Don’t know that much about the Challenger but the main gun is rifled where as smooth bore is all the rage these days in a lot of other tanks

Also don’t know about the logistics support of the UK mech stuff.

I do know that with the case of the M1 it really is a case of the Logistical “Tail” wagging the Operational “Dog”.

One thing I do like is U.K. basic training. Not so much all the fancy hardware but the way the people are instructed. While not armor or mech, I saw a good recent documetary on how the Royal Marines were trained and I was impressed with the “product” that the instructors produced and their methods. Again, Impressive.

It ammuses me that the Russian market prodcue a whole range of relatively very good (and in many cases superior) military equipment to British and European types for considerably less cost, yet we still refuse to buy Russian.

Take the BMP-3 for example. A very nice, affordable and amphibious IFV with allround missile / HEAT capability and option for the ARENA anti-top attack system. Our stuff isn’t even close to having that sort of anti-ballistic capability.

Originally posted by Dazza
They’ve also got a defence budget the U.K. armed forces can only dream about!

Regards, Dazza.

Hardly surprising when the US armed forces is a much larger collective organisation. But you are right though, the US tend to spend a lot more on R&D for defence pretty much because they can.

The warrior certainly has a better main gun than the Bradley… those 30mm HE rounds are more effective than the 25mm rounds.

I remember at one stage a Warrior being hit by a 120mm HESH round from a Challanger and surviving intact… This was mainly due to the addon spaced armour that the Warrior in question was fitted with. Of course this really says more about HESH rounds ineffectiveness against spaced armour than anything about the levels of protection the Warrior had. (I wouldn’t want to be in any APC with an enemy well equipped with modern RPG rounds…. except possibly the BTR-T or one of Israels Kangaroo conversions).

I would judge the Challenger II as right up there with the latest Abrams vehicle… and wouldn’t mind being in either.

One thing I noticed was the abundance of wheeled vehicles used by the US forces… I certainly wouldn’t feel safe in one of those in the front line. (We have LAVIIIs too but they are intended as peacekeeping vehicles that don’t rip up roads and are zippy with reasonable protection and firepower).

No chance Ivan. Modern US kit is designed to operate in the presence of a modern US logistics chain so, for anyone wthout that kind of logistics backup i.e everyone else they represent quite a burden despite their superior capabilities.

Warrior in UK service may be more austere than Bradley but is still a potent vehicle and has certain habitability features that the US vehicle doesnt and it comes in at a fraction of the price. It is also damned tough – one of my memories of the Boz footage was a Warrior in convoy rolling over some form of mine and being launched about half a foot off the deck. When it settled the track commander poked his head up out the hatch, turned to the camera vehicle, shrugged in confusion then disappeared back down into the turret and headed on.

Also like the below shot, of a Kuwaiti Warrior, shows:

It can be upgunned to give it all the warfighting potential of the Bradley.

I know one Recce Mech at least who rates Chally2 a lot higher than even the new marks of Abrams. This for the armour and supportability of the vehicle (he also says its a top giggle to drive – and he has a CRARV or Challenger Repair and Recovery Vehicle of his very own to play with!).

Yea but doesn’t it make you wonder whether the Brits should have bought off-the-shelf kit from the US?

They’ve also got a defence budget the U.K. armed forces can only dream about!

Regards, Dazza.

US has definitely the best equipment.