Use of A2 Rotary Launcher at Stiffkey, Norfolk

Fred, would you consider putting all your material together for a lecture to the volunteers at the City of Norwich Aviation Museum? Alternatively I might like to arrange a walking tour of the site for them and it would be good if you could come along to talk about it.

Rob

We went on an expedition yesterday to the site.

The images from there add nothing, the pole, now rusted solid and the track disappearing slowly back into the earth.

But for future visitors note 1) The Three Horshoes ar Warham. Start the walk there with a pint at noon and you won’t regret it. You can picture the crews from Langham and North Creake drinking their pints of warm, flat ale as plain as day, not a lot has changes – except the price of ale!

2) The Red Lion at Stiffkey. You can reach there by just after two, even through a snowstorm. The rabbit stew with dumplings is to die for.

Plus a couple of shots of Langham.

A great day out.

Moggy

Hello to all interested readers, I have two significant statements to make concerning the use of the Rotary Launcher on th Stffkey Marshes; Firstly, I have written confirmation that the Launcher was seen in action during 1953 by a credible witnes – no less than W/Cdr Ken Wallis who made a day visit at the invitation of a US Army Major, to see the McCuolloch engine in action. Secondly, I have e mail from Richard Strifosky – a US Army Veteran who was invloved in a met. section detachment providing weather info. to the AA gun range at Weybourne from Dec. 1955 until April 1957. He was accomodated (with others) in the Morston Road communual site of RAF Langham and confirms that all of the RCATS used during his period of service were launched from Weybourne AA Practice camp using an RP A7 Catapult launcher. He never heard of Stiffkey and the Whirlygig and never went there!
So, the Whirlygig was used by the US Army but then went out of use for unknown reasons. More information is still required! Fred Butcher.

Apologies for the mis-information. I have subsequently found a website confirming your views.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bell.s/Corner/Whirlygig.htm

On several occassions I have been told by locals that the site was used for launching a/c. The stories were of the Queen Bee being in regular use as a target drone for the gunners based at Stewkey [sic] camp. I guess most people put 2 and 2 together. The central pole and arm didn’t appear substantial enough to bear a Queen Bee, but I had assumed that it was contemporary with the last use of the site rather than the first.

A very interesting thread and as an aside, the reference to “Stewkey” is, I believe the local pronunciation of Stiffkey, particularly by older local residents which could cause confusion. Weybourne camp was until last year used by the various cadet forces, primarily the ATC as an Adventure Training centre. Unfortunately, it is no longer available as it was parented by RAF Neatishead which has now closed, which is a great shame.

Hi to Steve Touchdown, Richard Gray and Moggy C. Three for the price of one!! Steve – from where please did you get the reference to ‘1951 to 1957 Radio Controlled Target Aircraft detachment at RAF Lanham’. I have had a reply from Richard Strisofsky that I would like to discuss with you on the telephone. Please ring when convenient.
Richard – please note that my e mail address given in my post is not correctly displayed because it is fred underscore butcher – and the underscore bit gets lost in the underlining of the whole address!
Moggy C – I have attempted to e mial you with a question – how to insert a Quote in a Post – but the message will not send using mailto:tigheffernan.com…
Regards to you all. Fred Butcher.

Hi Richard – again. Just to say that my e mail address does not show correctly because there is an underscore between the fred and the butcher that becomes obliterated when the whole address id underlined…. Sorry about but I look forward to hearing from you.
Regards, Fred Butcher

Hi Steve Touchdown, Can you please give me more information about the two USAF units at old RAF Langham mentioned in your long message of the 14th January, namely;Radio controlled target aircraft det. 1951 to 1957 and M51 39th AAA Battery training det. 1953 to 1957.
I have been trying to get helpful response from a number of other contacts that I gathered from a site that carries memoirs from USAF AA gunners stationed at Upper Heyford during the years of the cold war. One such specifically refers to ‘going periodically to Langham camp near Cromer and fire at Radio Controlled Aerial Targets over the North Sea’ but unhappliy, I have not yet had a reply. I have sent to 10 men with similar history but only two have responded and neither of them profess’s to any Knowledge of the Rotary Launcher or RCATS…. Patience, patience.
I am looking forward to your telephone call sometime! Regards, Fred Butcher.

Hi Richard, Very interested to read your new Post and will be pleased to exchange any information with you about the Rotary Launcher and the RCTS that were flown from it. I have not received the e mail that you refer to – will you please check my address; [email]fred_butcher@lineone.net[/email]
I have not seen Len Barthams book but have seen a number of references to it. Can you tell me please where I could obtain a sight of it?
Your piece on the Langham Dome Trainer is most interesting and was very well researched.
Regards, Fred Butcher

Hi All During my research on the dome at Langham I have found this site.
glad I did as it appears to have a lot of Knowledgeable posters.

Fred unable to help you with your research as this is the first I have heard of the A2RL but will try to find out anything I can (Explained more in my email to you.)

Steve Don’t know if you have read Len Barthams book RAF Langham 1940 -58 A Brief History. but it is full of information about Henleys and Queen bees
giving plane nos date and what happened.
example 02/05/42 Henley TT L3243 1 AACU M flight hit grass cutter on take off, driver killed.

Back to the Dome, had a look around it a couple of weeks ago the door has been broken down and it is being allowed to decay.
I think I may know how it worked see http://www.cineramaadventure.com/trainer.htm and the youngsters think they invented vitual reality.

Regards Richard

It’s a pleasure Fred.

You’ve put Stiffkey on my list of places to revisit. 🙂

Moggy

Dear Moggy C, Many thanks for your instructions telling me how to insert an image into a Post – and Bingo, I have done so!
I seem to be making great progress with my enquries concerning the Stiffkey Rotary Launcher – just what I had hoped for!! REgards, Fred Butcher.

Dear Steve,Many thanks for your last two submits., that provoke many comments… I hope that a picture of Tiger Moth Queen Bee N1846 sitting on a MASSIVE Naval powered catapult launcher in 1939! This picture is on display in the Mucklebugh history room as well as shown in Action Statons, East Anglia. I do not know of the two Henley’s that say were brought down when they were presumeably towing drouges rather than being shot at… I assume that most of the Queen Bees were recovered from the sea if they were equipped with floats and there are references to HMS Radstock being stationed at Blakeney harbour or that purpose.
Your message of today refers to an excellent account of the operations of an RP19 from an A2 Rotary launcher – exactly as it must have happened at Warham/Stiffkey. I too am in the midst of trying to obatain personal accounts of operations at Stfiffkey from men who were with the 4th AAA on AA guard duty at Upper Heyford and made periodic visits to Langham and Stiffkey for target practice. Snap!! We shall have much to talk about… It’s all GOOD stuff and much appreciation for your contribution to the topic. Regards, Fred Butcher.

Some more info and some further photos snapped on Wednesday.

There are some really good photos, and interesting accounts of the launch procedure of the OQ-19 drones on the following site. It shows them mounted on wheeled trollies for launch on the circular track, as per the Warham site:

http://home.sport.rr.com/nikeajax/400.htm

As for the unit responsible for operations, I discovered that the parent for the Langham end of ops was the US Army’s 39th AAA Battery, part of the 32nd AAA Brigade. The 39th were based at Sculthorpe, for airfield defence. The Langham det. was for the gunnery training on 75mm M51 Skysweeper guns.

For more background and info on the 32nd Brigade, and 39th Battery, see:

http://www.usarmygermany.com/Units/Air%20Defense/USAREUR_32nd%20AADCOM.htm

From the organisational chart on that page it looks like the 50th Battery were responsible for what they term ‘Radio Controlled Air Target’.

For more on the Skysweeper: http://svsm.org/gallery/75mm_m51_skysweeper

Once I found the 39th AAA Battery link to the launch site, this threw up a very interesting message board at the 32nd AAA Brigade’s web space:

http://www.londoncentral.org/historical/royreeves/sdfbgsbghshbjsroys-bb.htm

I’ve included a couple of postings here taken from that which are of particular relevance to this thread. It would definitely be worthwhile contacting the posters as I’m sure they must be able to add valuable insight to this topic:

CHRISTMAS 1955 WAS SPENT AT A SMALL ARMY CAMP NEAR THE NORTH SEA CALLED LANGHAM CAMP, LANGHAM NEAR HOLT, NORFOLK. I WAS WITH THE 39TH AAA BATTERY MET. SECTION. OUR JOB WAS TO GET WEATHER INFORMATION AND GIVE IT TO UNITS WHO WERE AT WAYBORN RANGE TO FIRE THE 75 MM AAA GUNS AT RADIO CONTROLLED AIR PLANES. WAYBORN RANGE WAS A BRITISH AAA CAMP. THE CAMP NOW IS A TOURIST SITE WITH ALL TYPES OF WORLD WAR TWO EQUIPMENT ON DISPLAY.

RICHARD J. STRISOFSKY [email]XTRACTM32@MSN.COM[/email]

My tour of duty in the UK was with the 39th AAA Battery at Greenham Common. I arrived at Bushy Hall Nov of ’55, to find out where my next duty station was. It was to be in the Met Sec of the 39th Bat. This outfit was stationed at Langham Camp Norfolk, which was about one mile from the town of Langham. Our outpost was very small, we had about 35 men on the post. The met sec had about only 10 men some of the men who I served with were LT. Hansen, Sgt. Kiles Wilson, Bobby Burden, Herb McCall, Ray Colony, Mace Foxwell, Knute Anderson, Maynard Beck, Bill Deckerman, A Taylor, and CWO Clarance Jacobson and my name is Richard Strisofsky. I left the Uk April of ’57. My stay at Bushy Hall was all of one day.

My name is James Duggar. I was in D BTRY 39th AAA at Sculthorp from 1951-1952. We were on the perimeter around the runway
E-mail [email]Jmsduggar1@netzero.net[/email]

joe gialich cpl.a battery 39th a a a sculthorpe uk from 1951 til 1952. give a call. [email]studejoe@aol.com[/email]

The unit info I have for US units stationed at RAF Langham post-war is as follows:

1951 to 1957: Radio-controlled target aircraft det.
1953 to 1957: M51 39th AAA Battery training det.
1953 to 1954: Early warning radar unit attached to 39th AAA Battery/32nd AAA Brigade

Photos below are more of the circular track at Warham/Stiffkey, a close up of the launch contraption, a general view of where the centrepoint is located, a distant shot of the APC camp at Stiffkey and a shot looking north-east along one of Langhams runways.

Hope this is all of interest

Steve Rush

Dear Steve, Great comments on the Whirlygigg. I agree the surface of the trackway to be in excellent condition (no cracks or weed penetration) considering that it has been in place for fifty plus years! And on near marsh too! (Warham Greens or Stiffkey Marsh?)

Hi Fred,

The local place names are a little confusing, aren’t they? English Nature own (or are at least responsible for) the saltmarsh to the north and east of the site, and a notice board almost next to the eastern perimeter of the launch track names it as Warham Marshes. Warham Greens also exists and, the way I understand it, is that the land south of the coastal path (ie what is considered 100% terra firma) constitutes Warham Greens, whilst anything north of the path (ie the saltmarsh) is named marshes. This is the same further east at Stiffkey: both Stiffkey Marsh and Stiffkey Greens exist alongside one another. I think Warham is more applicable to where the launch track is located, but not the APC camp, which is definitely in Stiffkey territory!

Can you please ewxplain your reference to DOD?. My use of the designation A2 is taken from Radioplane and USAF documents (such as USAF AN 28-10C-26 Flight Operating Instructions for USAF series OQ-19D Target Aircraft, issed 19 FEB 1951).

I am certain that’s my own error, Fred. When I saw ‘A2’ in the thread title I thought it was reference to the earliest Radioplane drone which, in early 1942, the US Department of Defense referred to as an ‘A-2’. This was very quickly changed when new designations were applied and became the OQ-2A.

I now realise that we are talking about a slightly later era and the drones flown from the site were no doubt OQ-19D variants.

I assume that you live in the area and as I live in Shipdham I suggest we talk on the telephone sometime. My number is 01362 820 101.

I do indeed. But only very recently moved to the Kelling area. Weybourne Camp is all of a 2 minute walk from my place in fact; hence my interest in a fascinating local subject! I will certainly give you a call this weekend.

Your pictures are very good and I would very much like to know how to insert them into the Forum pages. Please tell me how! Regards, Fred Butcher

I think Moggy did the honours with this! I only posted the watch office like that because, after resizing it, it still didn’t quite make the forum limit. I’ll post some more photos shortly, so I hope you will approve of those too.

Best regards

Steve Rush

Dear Flat 12×2 Exactly right! The circular track of the Rotary Launcher shows up very clearly on Get Mapping’s display. It seems to me that its precise location is not within the boundaries of the old Stiffkey No 11 Light AAPCamp and strangely, there are no roadways leading right up to it to it (how were the target aircraft got to it?, nor are there any building foundations nearby for last minute assembly…). It is placed on a small piece of firm ground next to the extensive salt marsh of Warham Greens or Stiffkey Marshes, either of which might belong to the vast Holkham Estate. The odd fish shaped item to the left of the track is the site of a disused effluent plant that might have been placed there for the benefit of the western end of the military camp (the effluent from the main part of the camp was presumeably carried out to sea by the surface pipe still to be seen). The North Norfolk Coastal path actually crosses the southern part of the trackway. Was this a recognised footpath during or immediately after the war? Questions, questions… But it is all good stuff! Regards, Fred Butcher.

From the air from Multimap

I would very much like to know how to insert them into the Forum pages. Please tell me how! Regards, Fred Butcher

E-mail sent 🙂

Moggy

Dear Steve, Great comments on the Whirlygigg. I agree the surface of the trackway to be in excellent condition (no cracks or weed penetration) considering that it has been in place for fifty plus years! And on near marsh too! (Warham Greens or Stiffkey Marsh?) Can you please ewxplain your reference to DOD?. My use of the designation A2 is taken from Radioplane and USAF documents (such as USAF AN 28-10C-26 Flight Operating Instructions for USAF series OQ-19D Target Aircraft, issed 19 FEB 1951). I assume that you live in the area and as I live in Shipdham I suggest we talk on the telephone sometime. My number is 01362 820 101. Your pictures are very good and I would very much like to know how to insert them into the Forum pages. Please tell me how! Regards, Fred Butcher

Merlin70 wasn’t it Sculthorpe that was used as a store for aircraft rather than West Raynham.

Yes, Sculthorpe was used in the late 1970s to store the MAP funded F-100s, Mysteres and T-33s when they were reclaimed from the French by the US.

A handful of quickly-resized and edited shots from today.

Three of what remains of the rotary launcher at Stiffkey (Warham Marshes), plus the watch office and dome gunnery trainer at Langham.

The circular track at Stiffkey is in pretty good condition considering its age and the location. It looks to be made of tar/bitumen rather than the usual MoD concrete.

Hope these are of interest.

Addendum: Fred, one very minor point, but it may help with further research in the future, is that the DoD’s A-2 designation was very short-lived indeed for these target drone. From early in 1942 the new designation was OQ-2A. For more on this, and some photos plus other details, see Andreas Parsch’s excellent site:

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app1/oq-14.html

Steve Rush