Valiants at Wittering

In 1957/8 ? I was at a CCF summer camp at Cottesmore which was full of brand new Victors and security kept us well away from them,they had an Anson and 2 Chipmunks for cadet flying experience.We were taken to Wittering and allowed full access to the Valiants although I don’t remember being shown any bombs.I’m pretty sure Group Captain J.Johnson was Station Commander at Cottesmore.
Colin.
I’ve just checked,Johnnie Johnson was at Cottesmore from 1957.

I was at a CCF Summer Camp at Wittering in, I think 1959, where we had good access to the aircraft and some good air experience in the Chippies there. And we were indeed shown a bomb.

As Page says, I was referring to the Valiant B2 having been ideal for the RAF’s needs. Sadly, at the time that the B2 was developed, the Air Ministry hadn’t quite grasped the future need for low-level bombing, so the magnificent B2 never progressed beyond the prototype stage. Of course, if the Government had been given the benefit of a crystal ball, they could have avoided the huge expense of financing three (four, in fact) V-Bomber types and simply adopted the Valiant B1, followed by the B2.

It was slightly ironic that the Victor was often hailed as the most advanced and the most capable of the three V-Bombers but it was also the least practical. It could carry a larger conventional bomb load than the Vulcan but having been designed to carry one (nuclear) bomb in the same way as the Vulcan, this was no advantage. The Victor was better suited to high altitude flying, but of course the RAF ultimately needed a low-level bomber, and the Victor’s wings were completely unsuited to this environment. Worse still, when Blue Steel was introduced, the Victor’s low-slung fuselage was far from ideal. The proposals to carry Skybolt under the Victor’s wings illustrated how impractical the aircraft was for anything other than high-level free-fall bombing.

By comparison, the Vulcan was more manoeuvrable than the Victor, far better suited to low-level operations (“boiler plate” could simply be slapped-on to the wings as necessary), and could be loaded with Blue Steel (or Skybolt, if it had progressed) far more easily. Ultimately, it proved to be far more versatile than the Victor.

But neither aircraft would have been necessary had the value of the Valiant B2 been identified sooner. Such are the advantages of hindsight! But then, if Britain had opted for the Valiant B2, we’d have never had the beautiful Victor or the mighty Vulcan. Imagine!

S F

Thanks for that, however I attended Spanhoe on August 12th 2010, 50 years to the day since the crash, and also went to the memorial service.

I met with 4 of the children of the crew and this was the reason for my request, as nobody seemed to have a picture.

I’ve emailed some of the photographs of the 2 days on site to the families and also the documents that you maybe relating to.

Thanks again SF.

The search continues………………

As a teenager living in Peterborough in the 1950s, I used to watch the Valiants on the wide circuit from Wittering flying over the Westwood area. I am not sure what sort of approach it would have been. Gee-H?
They were common between 1955 and 1960. The first I saw was a very early production one, WP201, and they went right up to the last, XD875. XD818 (the nuclear test, Hendon and Cosford one) was among them. The first production Valiant, WP199 was at Marshalls in 1962, I recall.

Laurence

Thanks – that’s a good start. Sad about its demise, though, but I suppose it was difficult to justify 3 “V” bombers in the circumstances and so the Valiant had to be sacrificed. I remember Wittering being a busy place as I think it held a large stock of nuclear weapons and I vividly rmember a bunch of us teenage cadets being taken though concete compounds and shown an “Atom bomb”!

Is the only one left at Cosford?

In 1957/8 ? I was at a CCF summer camp at Cottesmore which was full of brand new Victors and security kept us well away from them,they had an Anson and 2 Chipmunks for cadet flying experience.We were taken to Wittering and allowed full access to the Valiants although I don’t remember being shown any bombs.I’m pretty sure Group Captain J.Johnson was Station Commander at Cottesmore.
Colin.
I’ve just checked,Johnnie Johnson was at Cottesmore from 1957.

Corgi Aviation Archive are also releasing a Valient in the new year!!!

I think Chox is possibly getting at the fact that Vickers fielded a Valiant B.2 c.1953 which was designed at built with the rigours of the low-level bomber/intruder role in mind from the outset.
However the AM at the time put all their faith in high-level over the missile tactics, something that quickly changed when Powers was downed in his U-2, suddenly low and below radar was best.
Low-level gust fatigue ruled out the Valiant B.1 and proved a bit too much for Victors, though the Vulcan with its inherently stronger wing form could stand it quite well.

I absolutely agree that the spar fatigue issue with the Valiant wasn’t its main downfall, but two other highly capable large jet bomber types in the force, and the low-level role put pay to them, not to mention that this excellent design was only intended as a bit of ‘belt and braces’ for the more advanced types. Ironically the Victor B.1s weren’t particularly suited to low-level ops either and these were choosen to replace the Valiant air to air tankers.

The Valiant B.2, WJ954, was a superb looking machine, being slightly longer, and featuring ‘kauchman carrot’ bodies on the wings which housed the multi-wheel bogies, the all over black scheme finished the look very nicely.

Chox – can you elaborate on your last paragraph? – sounds interesting.

Valiant fans will be delighted to know that Airfix will be releasing a 72nd scale kit of the aircraft very shortly. Nice to see the mighty beast properly captured in model form at long last.

It’s true that the Valiant’s career ended prematurely because of the wing spar problems but it’s worth bearing in mind that the reason why they were not simply repaired was because the aircraft wasn’t planned to remain in service much longer in any case. It was always regarded as a first-generation V-Bomber and with the Vulcan and Victor Mk.2 becoming available, the expense of refurbishing the Valiants didn’t seem appropriate.

The real tragedy was that the Valiant’s versatility and the need for low level operations wasn’t identified sooner. If it had been, the Government could have saved a fortune and abandoned both the Vulcan and Victor, and purchased the Valiant Mk.2 which would have been ideal for the RAF’s needs. But hindsight is a wonderful thing!

Photos

Jerry
On PPrune there is a very emotive thread from one of the Children ho’s father perished in the crash you mentioned. There are some photos of the accident though i dont think the complete aircraft. I wanted to post a reply to the next of Kin that in 35 years of flying i think the answer to the crash is pretty obvious and not what the board of inquiry came up with but i dont want to upset anyone. Kind rgds SF

I’m trying to find a photograph of a Vickers Valiant that was stationed at Wittering, XD 864, this aircraft took of from Wittering at 10:35, August 12, 1960 and crashed at Spanhoe at 10:38.

Thanks in advance.

Jerry

And if they ever need to change the nosewheel on that Valiant, I’ve got a “nosewheel axle nut ” spanner for a Valiant out the garage! 😀

A handsome beast!

I knew I’d seen that Valiant somewhere before!!! 😀

The Last Survivor……

The last survivor at RAF Cosford.

Happy days indeed.:D

It certainly does if you’re into V-Bombers.

The first ‘non-museum’ aircraft I went inside was a Victor at Marham in the early 1970s; followed by pictures in front of a B52 (on exercise at Marham) and then IIRC pictures in front of the station’s Valiant gate guard! Not a Vulcan in sight!! 😮

Pity about the ‘126 format’ pictures – happy days!! 😀

Pity I am so far away – the end of April sounds lkike the place to be for “V” bomber fans!:) They were so much a part of my life during the 50s and early 60s as an aviation besotted teenager and I only have to “smell” the Victor nose section at Manston to take me back 50 years.

There’re some interesting images in these galleries as well http://www.vforcereunion.co.uk/gallery.html 😀

Valient photo

this was taken at B of B day 1958 at St Athan.Taken with my trusty Brownie camera!!