Variable incidence tailpane on Canberra

Hi Baz & abadonna,
Just a quick update regarding my search for ex Canberra pilot Terry Murphy.
Amazingly, we have been successful in tracing Terry.

Thank you so much for the information that you have provided, his Service Number and middle name helped greatly in the search.
I am also greatly indebted to the 10 Squadron Association for their help in the search.

My dad has finally managed to contact Terry and his wife after a gap of over 50 years.
We’re hoping to arrange a meeting if health and time permit.

These forums are amazing places, and used by wonderful pepole…long may it continue

thanks again
Richard

Pleasure Richard,hope it is the correct chap.

rgds baz

Hi Bazv
Thank you, that certainly looks like the correct T G Murphy, and it is nice to know that he managed to retire from the RAF.
The information is very useful as I now know his middle name and Service Number.

The last information we have is that he was flying VC10s out of Brize Norton.
(I’ll continue my searches elsewhere, as I suspect I’m in the wrong forum for looking up former RAF personnel)
Thanks again
Richard

Not sure if the same T G Murphy but there was a T G Murphy retired from the RAF as a Flt Lt in 1976
(SUPPLEMENT TO THE LONDON GAZETTE, 12TH OCTOBER 1976 page 13769) refers

1st Oct. 1976
T. G. MURPHY (3132187).

Hi abadonna,
That is brilliant stuff, thank you. Your searching through the records is very much appreciated.
(I’m very impressive after I gave details of the wrong squadron and airshow!)
I’ll pass the information onto my dad, he will be very pleased to hear about it.
Pilot Officer T G Murphy was a childhood friend of my father and was best man at my parent’s wedding.
Unfortunately, my dad lost touch with him when he transferred to a Vulcan squadron during the height of the Cold War.
I have made various attempts to find out how his career progressed without success.

Thanks again
Richard

Richard,

the overrun accident could have been WD998 (9 Sqn) on 10 August 1953. Landed at high speed, no flap and high weight. Despite heavy braking ran off end off end of runway, across overshoot and beetfield and came to rest on bank. Pilot Officer T G Murphy. Cat 3R. Pilot error.

Just found the other incident. WD946. 9 Sqn. 20 September 1954. Battle of Britain display. “At Church Fenton, Flg Off T G Murphy was unable to do a high-speed run due to his tail trimmer sticking in the nose down position”. No fault found in subsequent examination of aircraft.

Hi Abadonna,
Thank you for your reply, I thought it was a bit of a long shot…but worth asking.

The same pilot was involved in an incident at RAF Bassingbourn or Binbrook in 1953/54 where he had a brake failure on landing.
The Canberra came off the end of the runway but thankfully the crew were unharmed…
However, when the fire engine reached them it couldn’t stop and it ran down a slope and into the tailplane, this caused the pilot some head injuries as he was just climbing out of the aircraft.
I’m guessing there conversation that followed couldn’t be written on this forum!

Anyway, thanks again
Richard

A friend of my father was flying a Canberra in 1954 or 55 at the Biggin Hill airshow (I believe) when he suffered a tailplane actuator fault.
Apparently, during a flypast, the aircraft climbed and disappeared from view…shortening his routine somewhat.
He did manage to land the aircraft, with great difficulty. I believe, as a result, Canberras were grounded whilst the fault was investigated.

Richard,

there were a number of Canberra tailplane incidents and accidents going back a number of years. Unfortunately there was little hard evidence as to the cause(s), and a bit of “burying head in sand” by the authorities. Finally came to a head in March 1956, by which time the the growing number of reported malfunctions (and fatal crashes in which tailplane was implicated) could not be ignored. So the incident you mention was really just one several. Several fixes were proposed (since the root cause was not 100% understood) before a series of modifications were developed and applied.

Originally posted by nazca_steve

What do the ‘min’ denote by the way? Not being that technically minded it went over my head.

‘min’ = minutes

60 minutes in one degree.In aviation terms it is the usual calibration unit used for Rigging on flying controls using (say) a Watts Clinometer to accurately measure flying control range of movement or for checking angles of incidence etc.
Sorry about late reply LOL

rgds baz

Originally posted by TonyT
One pilot if I remember correctly came back from Hong Kong and reported that he had handling problems and noticed the Nav getting the groundcrew to unpanel the back end, there he discovered a new washing machine tied off to the cables. He had spent the whole trip humping a washing machine back and forth.

I agree with Exbrat on this one Tony – I think it is unlikely that anybody could smuggle a whole washing machine into blighty via a Canberra,I doubt you could even fit a small one such as a Hoover Washdog (twin tub) up through the back hatch of a Canberra – as Exbrat posted – the back hatch panel was just big enough to mount your (3 ?) spare starter cartridges on and just big enough to get the rear (flexible) fuel tank in and out of.I did see a PR7 in from Malta one day in the early 70’s and the pilot proceeded to untie his bicycle from inside the fuselage (camera bay ? ) – he had been posted back to blighty.

rgds baz

As for moving tail planes check out the Mooney’s, the whole backend pivots just fwd of the fin.

Or PA22 Piper Colt or Piper Tripacer

Moggy

One pilot if I remember correctly came back from Hong Kong and reported that he had handling problems and noticed the Nav getting the groundcrew to unpanel the back end, there he discovered a new washing machine tied off to the cables. He had spent the whole trip humping a washing machine back and forth.

As for moving tail planes check out the Mooney’s, the whole backend pivots just fwd of the fin.

Thing that I remember about the Canberra is that crews returning from Luqua were rumoured (it could not possible be true, now could it?) to stow duty free fags in the tailplane actuator space and the customs officers couldn’t check the area as ‘on the secret list’.
Mike (RAF Marham 1956-8)

A friend of my father was flying a Canberra in 1954 or 55 at the Biggin Hill airshow (I believe) when he suffered a tailplane actuator fault.
Apparently, during a flypast, the aircraft climbed and disappeared from view…shortening his routine somewhat.
He did manage to land the aircraft, with great difficulty. I believe, as a result, Canberras were grounded whilst the fault was investigated.

I would greatly appreciate if anyone have any information on this incident?
(The pilot was T.Murphy and aircraft was probably from 231 OCU Bassingbourn or possibly 101 Squadron Binbrook)

Many thanks
Richard

Thanks Scorpion, it should be enough to get what I need done. What do the ‘min’ denote by the way? Not being that technically minded it went over my head.

[QUOTE=nazca_steve;1437632]Does anybody know the degree of trim offered the variable incidence tailplane? In all the pics I have show what appears to be very little angle, this striking me as the ‘neutral’ position as parked after landing.

Cheers,

Incidence measured from starboard inboard rigging gauge position
Range between electrical stops;
2 deg12min +/- 5.4min to 3deg 59min +/- 4.5min

Take off position 3deg 15min +/- 2min
On shut down trim is set “fully nose down and one blip up”
Hope that helps

Certainly Hawker and Fairey designs of the 20s and 30s had variable incidence tailplanes for trim, adjusted by screw-jack on one spar, controlled from the cockpit in flight – manual power, I presume. Fairy had ‘variable camber wings’, on their biplanes too.

The Westland Lysander tailplane went through various design iterations – the final version had a variable incidence tailplane, required to be at different angles for take off and landing, and potentially fatal in a go-round the elevator control not having enough authority to overcome the trim angle. Harald Penrose was not happy to sign the design off, but with the war coming, it was. (How much the of Lysander’s design was Petter’s is disputable.)

HTH

The DH89 Rapide also had a variable incidence tailplane for trim… and Miles aircraft were playing around with an all-flying tailplane way before the Merry Cans claimed it as ‘theirs’ with the Bell X-1

Does anybody know the degree of trim offered the variable incidence tailplane? In all the pics I have show what appears to be very little angle, this striking me as the ‘neutral’ position as parked after landing.

Cheers,

Steve

Tim, very, very interesting story there, good to know and help my overall understanding of the thing. Any chance you could take some snaps in that region or better yet, next time (if there is one) you are doing some maintenance on her? Ideally I’d like to see how much ‘see through’ there is when trimmed fully up and down. Also, is the actuator visible in this area, or buried further out of sight? ‘scuse the ignorance here, I’m working with small cutaway drawings and trying to build her for FS2004.

I very recently just repaired a snag on WT333’s tail incidence actuator. It’s a beast of thing, with a high and low gear motor (though only one motor was actually ever used). When you see a Canberra tail and elevator assembly removed from the aircraft, you can see why such a big actuator was required – its is a single piece affair with a weighty spar forming a flat web running through the middle which occupies the famous “see through” portion of the tail cone..real engineering!

Our fault was just a crusty connection..the tail was stuck in the dangerous fully up trimmed position..a real issue even for us fast taxy types as it tries to lift the nose off the ground at the very earliest opportunity. Rectified by a quixk disconnect and blast with some moisture dispersant, trimmed back to neutral then associated fuse duly removed to prevent the same thing happening again!

And to think I was born a rigger…don’t tell my Airframes TM I’ve been flirting with wiggly amps for goodness sake!