Vikramaditya Part 2

Here’s a similar article…..

NEW DELHI: After an initial $500 million, India has now paid another $102 million to Russia to ensure that the delivery of aircraft carrier Admiral
Gorshkov is not delayed beyond December 2012 at any cost.

“The warship is ours and we are not letting it go,” said a senior defence ministry official on Thursday. This came soon after the high-level team led by defence secretary Vijay Singh returned to New Delhi from Moscow after reviewing the expansive Indo-Russian defence relationship, which has undergone quite a bit of turbulence in recent years with the bitter wrangling over Gorshkov only being the most visible symbol.

As first reported by TOI, Russia wants as much as $2 billion more to deliver the 44,570-tonne Gorshkov by end-2012, over and above the original $1.5 billion package deal signed in January 2004.

Gorshkov’s refit was initially pegged at $974 million in the original $1.5 billion deal, with the rest earmarked for 16 MiG-29K fighters to operate from the carrier and other things.

India, on its part, is willing to consider a figure closer to $2.2 billion for the ongoing refit of Gorshkov — rechristened INS Vikramaditya — at Sevmash shipyard in north Russia.

“Negotiations are in progress to bring the final cost closer to the $2.2 billion mark from the $2.9 billion being demanded by Russia,” said the official.

Both India and Russia hope to arrive at the “final firm cost” by July. The defence ministry, in fact, wants to send the “new” Gorshkov deal to the Cabinet Committee on Security for approval by end-July, as reported earlier.

“Gorshkov is probably the most problematic issue in the Indo-Russian defence ties. There have been bottlenecks and delays. But there has been significant improvement in Russia’s responses as well as quality of services over the last one year,” said the official.

Russia has been India’s largest defence partner for decades, notching up sales to New Delhi worth around $1.5 billion every year. India, however, in recent years has been increasingly turning to Israel, US and EU countries for its defence supplies.

India is quite upset with Russia for not sticking to delivery schedules, creating roadblocks in transfer of technology (ToT), jacking up costs midway through execution of agreements and failing to provide uninterrupted supply of spares.

ToT problems, for instance, have dogged the indigenous manufacture of both T-90S main-battle tanks and Sukhoi-30MKI projects. Russia’s delay in giving `full ToT’ for India’s plan to manufacture 1,000 T-90S tanks has taken place even after New Delhi first imported 310 of these tanks for over Rs 3,625 crore under a February 2001 contract, and then signed another Rs 4,900 crore contract in November 2007 to import 347 more tanks.

The story of ToT delays and cost escalations is the same in the contracts for 230 Sukhoi-30MKI fighters, overall worth around $8.5 billion. “The problems have now been sorted out, with 50 kits for T-90S tanks handed over to India,” said the official

Still nothing is final…………:eek:

Finally things seems to be moving…..

Is that the whole article???:confused:

Finally things seems to be moving…..

India, Russia close to fresh Gorshkov deal

K.V. Prasad

Eventual figure will be close to $2.2 bn

Russians asked to ensure delivery by December 2012

NEW DELHI: Taking forward decades-long relations between New Delhi and Moscow in the field of defence now worth around Rs.20,000 crore annually, both countries are working towards a fresh agreement on Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov (rechristened INS Vikramaditya) by the end of next month.

Although a final price tag is yet to be determined, Indian officials familiar with negotiations said here on Thursday that the eventual figure would be closer to the $2.2 billion estimate, pulling it down from the revised demand of $2.9 billion, the Russians indicated.

Well, that debate will have to wait til next time………;)

Yep, so be it.. 🙂

Seen much worse than that, if you ask me..

Well, that debate will have to wait til next time………;)

Oh, please don’t go there………….Like India has spent her money wisely on Defense Weapons.:(

Seen much worse than that, if you ask me..

Yes they can…but would they???

Would they allow license production?

Would they allow technology transfer??

Would they allow co-development like what is happening with the PAK/FA?

They can, but they will not. Two different things.

I am sorry but that is one of the dumbest things I’ve heard in a long time! As the basic requirements of the MMRCA. Is to produce the winner in India with a far share of technology transfer. So, what you believe the US Goverment along with Boeing and Lockheed Martin are doing in the competition??? Please, the US has made it perfectly clear that it will allow License Production and a with Great Deal of Technology Transfer.

BTW Co-Development is not part of the MMRCA at all………..

With all do respect you have no idea what the US would or would not allow!

Well, price is not everything and the US can offer things Russia can clearly not…………

Yes they can…but would they???

Would they allow license production?

Would they allow technology transfer??

Would they allow co-development like what is happening with the PAK/FA?

They can, but they will not. Two different things.

Remember, unlike you, India does not have printers for dollars, they actually need to earn the money first..

Oh, please don’t go there………….Like India has spent her money wisely on Defense Weapons.:(

Well, price is not everything and the US can offer things Russia can clearly not…………

Remember, unlike you, India does not have printers for dollars, they actually need to earn the money first..

To accommodate them a few helicopters must be sacrificed, but its unlikely that Vicky would have space for 3-4.

The U.S cannot offer as much ToT as the Russians can. And apart from the Super Carriers and Fifth Gen fighters, there is always a Russian alternative for American weaponry. And then there is Israel and France.

Well, both sides offer many advantages and disadvantages. That said, from a political point of view and if I were India. I would seriously consider purchasing European as a option for the MMRCA. With the Rafale top on my list……………….

that LPD the USN sold to India left a very bad impression, or so I heard

Well, I am not so sure about that. Yet, they say “it is what it is”……..Which, translates into you ge what you pay for. Remember, its a old ship…..:(

Yeah it had an accident killing some crew. Which caused a furor among the leftists here, don’t think Americans are to blame for it though.

But Russian accidents happen before they deliver 🙁 like in the cause of the subs.

The Indians were unfamiliar with the sewage system on that ship, it was completely different than what is on all other Indian ships and a gas leak unfortunately killed several people.

Yeah it had an accident killing some crew. Which caused a furor among the leftists here, don’t think Americans are to blame for it though.

But Russian accidents happen before they deliver 🙁 like in the cause of the subs.

Well, price is not everything and the US can offer things Russia can clearly not…………

that LPD the USN sold to India left a very bad impression, or so I heard

To accommodate them a few helicopters must be sacrificed, but its unlikely that Vicky would have space for 3-4.

The U.S cannot offer as much ToT as the Russians can. And apart from the Super Carriers and Fifth Gen fighters, there is always a Russian alternative for American weaponry. And then there is Israel and France.

Because of Indian suspicion of the US. And may be because they may not sanction its sale to us as it requires clearance from the govt. It will also be considerably expensive than the 29ks.

even at 89.1 million per piece that is a real possibility. 6-10 of them would not be beyond our means.

Well, price is not everything and the US can offer things Russia can clearly not…………

Then again the Cv 22 looks huge even with their props shifter upwards. How many can Vicky/IAC carry and that would limit the number of fighters i think.

Well, they could be used in a AEW Role……..So, in that role 3-4 would be needed.

Why not? F-35 should be the replacement of Mig-21; Mig-29 (any type) and Jaguar. Nice to see it on the Vikram.
“Big” land-based fighters the MKI and later the PAK-FA MKI. So, in the end the IAF should have just 3 types.

Because of Indian suspicion of the US. And may be because they may not sanction its sale to us as it requires clearance from the govt. It will also be considerably expensive than the 29ks.

even at 89.1 million per piece that is a real possibility. 6-10 of them would not be beyond our means.

The problem with the CV-22 is the price tag. Last time I checked it went for staggering $89.1mil per copy. Promises exist that the price shall be reduced in the future but honestly, I don’t quite remember last time something got cheaper with time.. :confused: