Visit to Westland Aircraft 28th May 1943

JDK, that is only a small part… :rolleyes: I went a bit mad and got the NA to copy both Avia 46/122 and AIR 2/2821 complete

It is very interesting reading to say the least.

I always enjoy your posts JDK I will be getting a copy of the aforementioned Lysander book make no mistake…

Talking of books, I think it is about time for an authoritative account of the Westland Whirlwind… Mr Bingham’s needs updating.

Perhaps your goodself and Mr Brewer and Mr Corduroy should get together and write it… Put me down for a signed copy.

A fascinating document, and a great insight.

I’m impressed with the discussion on the Lysander, having recently been immersed in the type to an unhealthy degree, in research for this Lysander book. Mention of the instillation of the 2 x 20mm cannon (which was an ‘innovation’) and the bomb racks (not a new 1940 idea, but part of the original requirement) as Battle of Britain innovations, is fair enough, but Westland’s staff don’t mention the lamentable strafer types: the Pregnant Perch and Delanne Lysander (the P-12) – not a surprise, perhaps, as they were pointless ill-conceived ideas, but they must have wasted a fair amount of time that should have been used for more important tasks – like getting the Whirlwind right.

Critically: “He [Penrose] also said he thought it was the safest aeroplane that had ever been built.” (SWScan00062) is a direct contradiction to his own statement and 1936 view that he was not happy to sign the aircraft design off for production due to the trim issues, which were not resolved to a safe degree at that stage (and never really were solved properly). After entry to service, several aircraft were crashed and the crew killed due to low level and low speed evolutions, an area that was a core part of the aircraft’s job. As a result a warning forbidding that the Lysander was not to be put into a steep climb at under 500ft and not to be climbed at all under 50mph IAS was forced to be made by the A&AEE at the request of the Air Min.

Andy Sephton, Chief Pilot of the Shuttleworth Collection, and a qualified test pilot (and current Lysander pilot) said in Pilot Magazine in May 2003: “I know I’ve never read such warnings before in the Pilot’s Notes of an aircraft in service -comments like these are more at home in a critical report following an unsuccessful test flight.”

Safest? I don’t think so.

As to the reasons given to the failure in service of the Whirlwind, it seems (and I’m not expert here) to consist of a lot of complaints about other views and involvement, and too little recognition of Westlands just being slow and unfocussed in getting the aircraft right.

A fascinating document, but not one to be taken at face value. It’s often overlooked that Petter (charges of nepotism for his appointment to the family firm cannot be discounted completely) was perhaps not as great at this stage of his career as Westland’s needed him to be, and there are significant gaps and silences as to his actual input to the Lysander’s design as hindsight might like us to believe – Davenport certainly led the design process (Documents in Westland’s archive are clear on this) but Petter, as ‘heir apparent’ has often been credited with being the Lysander’s designer.

Just a few thoughts!

My pleasure…

“Used to make stainless steel beer barrels at a financial loss which Teddy Petter used to take round selling to brewers”

Oh dear… A projected production figure of 4 Whirlys a week!

Hmmm…Fred Ballam told me they used to be able to produce 15 Spits a week and one time got the figure up to 17… In comparison Whirlwind production was 1 a month…

Group Capt. Harris thought it was very a good design… Mind you didn’t he have a great dislike for the Halifax

Over 4.000 drawings made, yet today finding one is akin to trying to fill a bucket with rocking horse Sh#t…

Hawkers came to Westlands for a look see, with a view to building the type…

Thanks for posting this MrBS, interesting insight to the AM view of the Whirlwind and its development, especially it’s view on the use of Merlins over the Pereguine.

To finish…