Vulcan aerobatics, the truth?

Sounds like you’re as much in the dark about NAM’s plans as I am with my publisher’s! I think it’s a dark plot to keep the poor drones under control:p

No – not in NAM’s case it’s called division of labour, which is a great help when organising a series of major events in such a relatively short space of time.

Easter Holiday weekend open cockpits 2 to 5 April, 2010 (hopefully)
Indoor Aeroboot 17 April, 2010
Tribute to the V-Force 24 & 25 April, 2010
Cockpit-Fest & Aeroboot 19 & 20 June, 2010
😀

Just a wee reply from earlier on

>>You can assess that from the ground?<<

Well from a pilots point of view the Oly 301’s were limited however for us Linies we sometimes got to run them
at full chat with the JPT limiters and governers switched off [ switches behind the Captains seat] and yes the earth
moved.

>>Well, for someone who was not on board some of the occaisions you describe you appear to know an awful lot about them<<

Good powers of observation. Much needed in TG.1.

>>I cannot tell whether an aircraft is in a max rate turn by watching it, how do you do that?<<

The moving things on the trailing edge appeared to be at full deflection.

>>A what kind of landing? How did you assess it?<<

Nose well up- bum well down and beautifully controlled to the last possible moment when the chute was popped
as the nose wheel came down.

>>You really had me believing that you were on board, how else would you have known the speed?<<

I think they are called pilots notes

Cheers
Mad Jock

Sounds like you’re as much in the dark about NAM’s plans as I am with my publisher’s! I think it’s a dark plot to keep the poor drones under control:p

Tribute to the V-Force 24 & 25 April, 2010

Don’t know much about the book arrangements for the V-Force event I’m afraid – I’m merely the messenger!

Now if it were to do with the marquee and portable toilets I’m the one to talk to!! 😀

I’ll spare you from the horrors of my presence! I’m not sure whether Crecy still promote my last Vulcan book or whether they’ve all been sold by now – or if they propose to revise/reprint it.

Tribute to the V-Force 24 & 25 April, 2010

Looking back to the start of this thread in 2008 I see that Tony Blackman was mentioned; he is due to be at the NAM Tribute to the V-Force event in a few weeks time and will be doing one of the ’sell & signing’ sessions! 😀

I’ll leave this to the moderators if they want to pull this as advertising, but we’ve recently come across the following that is pertinent to this thread, and deserves passing on.

We’re about to launch a series of books on Test Pilots of A. V. Roe & Co Ltd from the pen of Peter Clegg. The one on Roly Falk is particularly interesting, for Peter had managed to obtain documents that tell the story ‘as it was’ from the man concerned.

As the SBAC Show approached once more in September and knowing that Handley Page would be showing off their surviving Victor prototype again to best advantage, Roly decided to make some experiments with 889. On August 31st 1955, therefore, with Ted Hartley as his observer, Roly took up XA889 at 1830 at Woodford for 55 minutes of sheer brilliance to the onlookers (though not many workers remained behind at that time to see 889 cavorting around the Cheshire skies). Perfecting a routine for the SBAC Show, Roly approached Woodford at medium altitude four times and on the run across the aerodrome, calmly and smoothly rolled the large 99 ft span aircraft through 360 degrees, starting and finishing in the horizontal plane! In fact Roly knew that the Vulcan would handle beautifully in a full roll, from all the test-flying he had done to date and from his enormous experience in handling all kinds of aircraft, especially fast ones. He had no qualms about repeating the exercise in Public in a few days time. The ‘roll’ in fact was more of a ‘barrel roll’ in nature, in order to keep the Vulcan under slight positive ‘g’ all the time – rather than have the negative ‘g’of a normal roll in the inverted position. One thing Roly neglected to do – he never warned his rear crew of his intentions until the event was over! Ted Hartley in the back, realised what was happening because he saw the sun ‘spot’ (caused by it shining through the small porthole in the rear cabin) moving all the way round the side walls as the Vulcan rolled!

The daily Show Report for September 6th, produced by the SBAC itself, stated:

A unique feat of piloting was the highlight of yesterday’s rehearsal at Farnborough of the 16th Society of British Aircraft Constructors Display. Roland Falk had taken off the Avro Vulcan and made a -wide left-hand circuit behind the assembly of spectators,
He came into view against a cloud-flecked blue sky and accelerated towards a point about opposite the President’s tent. Here the silver wings of the big delta glinted in the sun as a bank to the left -was rapidly applied. The aircraft then -went into a smooth, fairly fast and perfectly executed roll. It gained height in the process. No aircraft of comparable size has ever before achieved a complete rolling manoeuvre.’[/I]
However, there was a reaction, as Roly recalls: ‘After I had done this for two days, I was called to the President’s Tent and told by the Service and Civil ‘bosses that they were frightened by this manoeuvre in so large an aircraft and that I must not continue with it! I had anticipated that sort of reaction and armed myself with automatic observer records which demonstrated that, throughout, acceleration was safely held to within just over 1 ‘g’ showed them this record, but they would not change their minds and so I was ordered to do something different for the remainder of the Display.
This meant that, on subsequent days, I had to perform a new, unpractised programme which is, of course, a dangerous thing to do. It was unfortunate that the ‘Top Brass’ of that time, lacking sufficient knowledge of flying, felt that they had to interfere with the duties of the flying control committee.

I attach a couple of pictures that are ‘sort of’ pertinent. The first is Roly Falk doing a low-level pass at Hucknall – The span of the Vulcan is 99ft – scaling that, gives and altitude of one-third span – or about 30 feet!

The other is a nose-on shot of VX777 following Roly Falk’s emergency landing at Farnborough. The legs were torn off after it slid over a deep ditch. The underside damage is something to behold!

I thought I had seen footage of the Vulcan dooing them, it’s good to know I wasn’t mistaken. I’ve never seen the Victor footage though.

Sorry to have caused confusion JB (it’s something I’m good at) My meaning was that the Vulcan was the only V-bomber they did it with to the best of my knowledge. I certainly had no intention of implying that it wasn’t done with other types as I am well aware that it was. My sincere apologies for any misunderstanding caused.

I’ve seen Farnborough footage from the ’60s of both Victor and Vulcan performing simulated LABS manouveres, both service machines.

As previously mentioned, the USAF pioneered that technique with its B-47s and used it long enough that the wing-join pin “milk bottle” needed replacing on a lot of the fleet by the late 50s.

Sorry to have caused confusion JB (it’s something I’m good at) My meaning was that the Vulcan was the only V-bomber they did it with to the best of my knowledge. I certainly had no intention of implying that it wasn’t done with other types as I am well aware that it was. My sincere apologies for any misunderstanding caused.

One of the accepted methods of delivery for nuclear weapons was ‘toss bombing’ and I’ve heard stories that the crews didn’t like the idea of carrying on further into enemy territory after release so the chosen method was to do a half loop and half roll then head for the deck so that they were actually heading for home even before the weapon exploded. As far as I’m aware it was only the Vulcan they did it with.

Canberra , Buccaneer ??
On 231 OCU in the 70’s one of our T4’s … WE188 ?? I think still had LABS gear in cockpit which had been used for training at one time,long time ago,can Scorpion 63 confirm ??

cheers baz

Robbie Stewart rings a bell – was he later a TTTE NAV?

As far as I’m aware it was only the Vulcan they did it with.

As previously mentioned, the USAF pioneered that technique with its B-47s and used it long enough that the wing-join pin “milk bottle” needed replacing on a lot of the fleet by the late 50s.

They peformed half rolls at Farnborough, all photographed and filmed – but probably vey light and mininum fuel.
Didn’t’Roly’ Falk loop a Vulcan proto?

One of the accepted methods of delivery for nuclear weapons was ‘toss bombing’ and I’ve heard stories that the crews didn’t like the idea of carrying on further into enemy territory after release so the chosen method was to do a half loop and half roll then head for the deck so that they were actually heading for home even before the weapon exploded. As far as I’m aware it was only the Vulcan they did it with.

Ok, not strictly aeros, but I well recall a Vulcan at the Biggin Hill Battle of Britain display, circa 1972/3, going “down in the valley” and vanishing from view. Silence. Then, an explosion of sound as it came up, out of the valley, almost vertically. Then,later, a run in from the valley end, down in the valley out of sight, and lifting up just across the Bromley road. Mightily impressive. Wish I had some film or pics of it now. Seemed quite ordinarily normal then!!

This thread prompted me to watch again my VHS copy of “Where the big birds fly” -a Yorkshire TV production from 1973 IIRC. It follows the crew (including a very dry and straight faced John Porter as captain and the only other named individual – Radar Nav Robbie Stewart) and Vulcan XM600 during low level training from Goose Bay. Some spectacular images of a Vulcan down on the deck, but one of the final sequences, seemingly shot from a boat or island in the middle of a lake clearly shows ‘600 approaching at low level then pulling up extremely steeply and beginning to go onto its back as it were. Annoyingly, the camera cuts away then and the follow thru’/roll out is not covered. It does definitely illustrate a LABS manouvere though.

Never mind the rolls:diablo:- lets see ‘558 do a Zuracowsky cartwheel & then we are talking aerobatics.:D:D

heres another link
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=17GfXQ2wCFU

thats a radio controlled vulcan…..:D
thats unreal never seen anything like that before.

Roly Falks upward roll is at the end of this clip…

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GPuTgcrA2Zs

cheers baz