Vulcan Crew Drill Trainer Saved!

In 1982 I was trained to exit the Vulcan in the Waddington crew trainer. Never had to do it for real.
I flew as seventh on two trips to Offutt in the USA.

Yes I’ll try and make sure I bring it with me to Newark, it will be a pretty full van too with some heavy lumps inc a Bucc main wheel besides the usual items.

Excellent! And if the Bucc mainwheel has a decent tyre on it it could be of interest to Ollie (Victor Sim) for one of the Brunty Buccs…

XL160 PROBED!
Speaking of which, for the first time since we acquired her from RAF Barnham in 1994, Victor XL160 now has a probe back on its roof with all fittings and underfairing – a big thank you to Flixton’s multi-talented staff and the great assistance of the Tornado Maintenance School at RAF Marham, without whom this could not have taken place :rolleyes:

Excellent again! Pics please. Well done guys 🙂

UPS & DOWNS, XL160 & OTHERS

What an amazing story with ups and downs hopes built then shattered only to be rebuilt! This would make the base for one heck of a good book on this unique surviving cockpit section!

It would certainly make an interesting casebook for what you sometimes have to do to save historic ‘lumps’ for the future, and this isn’t necessarily the full story, but I’m glad something of the ups and downs came across as it certainly makes the end result more satisfying when it turns out to be positive.

It wasn’t helped by the additional logistics and pick up and moving of a Sea Hawk cockpit that I also acquired, which extended over 3 days before I got it to a museum, besides some aero events and the usual work matters to tend to. At present I’m enjoying reverting more to the usual Victor Association website stories etc and quarterly newsletter design demands, while Newark Aeroboot and the ROC Day & BoB Flypast at Flixton have to be fitted in. I must find a paying job soon!

XL160 PROBED!
Speaking of which, for the first time since we acquired her from RAF Barnham in 1994, Victor XL160 now has a probe back on its roof with all fittings and underfairing – a big thank you to Flixton’s multi-talented staff and the great assistance of the Tornado Maintenance School at RAF Marham, without whom this could not have taken place :rolleyes:

VULC REAR PANEL/NEWARK AEROBOOT

Steve showed us the cockpit when we visited Aeroventure a couple of weeks ago to take the artouste’s generator back. I’m glad it’s found a safe home. (as will that other Vulcan rear panel you mentioned on our Victor thread, hint hint!) 🙂

Yes I’ll try and make sure I bring it with me to Newark, it will be a pretty full van too with some heavy lumps inc a Bucc main wheel besides the usual items. Here’s to some more face-to-face trading and info-swapping again anyway, and I may bring some refreshments to be consumed early in the day, plus some bacon rasher crisps 😀

XD857: VALIANT RADOME THOUGHTS

I had a good view from the fence and the condition is very good for having been outside so long.

Odd patches of the outer fabric are just starting to bubble and lift. The main area of delamination is limited to one layer about 1 square meter on the right side (Viewed as it is lying upside down, from the railings looking fore to aft).

Question is where and when are you going to find another one not fitted to an airframe?

At least you know it exists and have some piccys of the current state.

Regards
Ross

Hi Ross,

Have been thinking about the Valiant radome again – even if its the lower fibreglass half (which it is) and not the metal top portion, they are applied to the front bulkhead with a perpendicular edge and are not angled.

Sooo, all things being equal (hopefully cylindrically that is) then in theory
(he said) it just might prove that I can use the fibre glass lower half upside down – and overlay it up to the bulkhead, then after getting it in position, drill through the existing side holes in the bulkhead collar that takes it, into the fibreglass, to then bolt it on with mushroom heads, and make a more substantial presentation of the nose section.

Do you have an address or contact number that I could write/call for the one you kindly shot?

Also, is this the only one you know of, or are there any others rumoured to be around?

I’ll check through the comments to date again soonest in case I missed any info like this but wanted to update before I get busy until next week sometime. I’ve already been tied up for over a month selling my Vulcan CDT and that’s out of the way and stored temporarily at Doncaster now.

Its awaiting a pick up from the 558 people whereas I could have delivered it directly, but they seem to want to spend more time and money on it including a 2nd lorry – not the best policy I would have thought when you have a fuel leak problem to deal with, while time to display at shows to make money would presumably be of the essence. Hoping to get back to things properly again in around a week anyway as moving more stuff from Sunday onwards, will update again soonest.

Beers :p

Vulcan CDT

I was a nav rad on Vulcans from 1971 to 84, serving mainly at Waddington but also as an instructor on 230 OCU at Scampton. I was responsible at one stage for crew drill training so know the Scampton unit quite well. I do not think they were ever pressurised – there would be no point, the thing was to train rear crew to get out asap. The Scampton example had the canopy cover removed completely and there was a big cut-out on the starboard side to allow the instructor to see in, so ….With regard to AVS, in the real aircraft the AVS hose for each of the rear crew the hose appeared from under the desk, completely separate from the oxygen and static line connections. I do not remember it being fitted to the simulator. Hope this is of interest.

RADOME RENOVATIONS

Question is where and when are you going to find another one not fitted to an airframe?

At least you know it exists and have some piccys of the current state.

Farmers round here grow odd aviation items. I’ve talked about the Javelin raydome in the field on the other side of the town to me but the bulk seem to have broken up with the constant movement by fork lift.

Regards
Ross[/QUOTE]

That’s what I’ve been thinking Ross, they sure won’t be manufactured again and it seems a shame to let one go to ruin if it can be remated again. Let’s see what happens after the other report comes in and if more exist first, I’m tied up with the V CDT at present but hope to get back to normal in a few weeks and it would be a worthwhile thing to look at and cost for. Thanks for the time spent in reporting back on this.

G

Update:
Trouble is, I think its a LOWER one which is no good, the upper one I’d need was made of metal – only the durable fibreglass lower ones would have survived if so. Dang.

Vulcan crew Drill trainers

Hello, I was a Vulcan Nav Rad from 1971 to 84, and instructed on the CDT at Scampton as part of my 230 OCU responsibilities, you may know the nav rad was the first out and operated the escape door mechanism. The trainer was not pressurised – certainly in the period I was involved, in fact the cockpit cover was removed from the Scampton trainer (can’t remember about the Waddington example, these were the only two I was involved with) so that crew could exit the aircraft in a simulated wheels up or ditching. The rear crew had the ‘elephants trunk’ connected as normal, don’t recall the AVS but if it was there it was a separate tube coming to the nav/aeo from under the desk. Hope this is of interest and clears up a couple of queries.

Gordon Brady

I wonder if the accident you refer to was not the trainer but in fact the real thing? Whilst I was at Waddington between 63 & 71, a poor chap was killed when the entrance door opened during a routing cabin pressure check on a night shift – luckily I was on days at the time. The procedure was to pressurise the cabin to around 9+ psi above ambient using the rig and placing a pressure gauge in the bomb aimers window so it could be seen from outside and you had to time the leakage rate from 9 to 8 then 8 to 7 etc etc. Whilst this was being done, there would be leaking airfrom all sorts of places one of which would be from around the inflatable door seal. The entrance door was secured closed by two shoot bolts which latched at the aft end and to ensure the bolts were fully home, you had to check a dolls eye in the nosewheel bay. Dolls eyes were generally black when safe and white when not but this particuklar dolls eye worked in reverse ie was white when safe and black when not. I understood this was because in the dark nosewheel bay a white dolls eye could be seen. I am led to believe that the person doing this check was confused as he obviously thought the dolls eye indicated safe but the shoot bolts had barely gone home and the black dolls eye indicated this. During the course of the prseeure check it was normal procedure to walk around the aircraft and using your hand feel where the leaks were coming from and on this occasion the door burst open under extremely his pressure and killed the chap outright. That’s the way I remember it but others may know different…..very sad anyway…

i was also there and remember the civilian police taping around the hanger to keep
everybody out I worked in FAP but cant remember which hanger it was

Next Thursday, my next day off, i will drive out to Cutnall Green and see if the “Pens” are still there. Its about 70 miles from here, I will take some photos and try to make contact with the owner. Hang cool dude.

I had a good view from the fence and the condition is very good for having been outside so long.

Odd patches of the outer fabric are just starting to bubble and lift. The main area of delamination is limited to one layer about 1 square meter on the right side (Viewed as it is lying upside down, from the railings looking fore to aft).

The areas in contact with the ground do not seem to show any significant rot.

Three options as I see it.

1. Repair and fit
2. Repair and create a mould from it to throw a new glass fibre raydome for 857.
3. Say how quaint and file away the photos leaving the piggies to fly in their V Bomber house.

Question is where and when are you going to find another one not fitted to an airframe?

At least you know it exists and have some piccys of the current state.

Farmers round here grow odd aviation items. I’ve talked about the Javelin raydome in the field on the other side of the town to me but the bulk seem to have broken up with the constant movement by fork lift.

Regards
Ross

VALIANT RADOME SHELTER / XD857

Waited until a wet day to prove the piccys were taken today.

Only a little delamination happening. Structurally sound for a static.

Regards
Ross

Thanks for that Ross, how intriguing – would help XD857 look more substantial at Flixton! Only concern would be the delamination re filling and subsequent cracking.

I had a lovely Sea Vixen repainted and put on display some time ago and unfortunately the radome was old and needed quite a bit of filling in places
before respraying. In less than a year of cold and heat on outside display the paintwork started cracking off as the filler degraded, but the restorer did the best he could with the filling.

Any other Valiant radomes used as pens or shelters would be in much the same condition I expect, but would still be nice to try to mate one up to ‘857’s bulkhead again.

Waited until a wet day to prove the piccys were taken today.

Only a little delamination happening. Structurally sound for a static.

Regards
Ross

Valiant section

Having just picked up on this thread i noticed mention of sheds and nose sections. Some 20 0dd years ago i kept a Pub in Chaddesley Corbet,Worcs.
Not far away on the road from Kiddy to Bromsgrove was a pig farm quite near the old Hartlbury MU. Said farmers field was full of what appeared to be Valiant lower radome/nose sections being used as Mk1 pigs homes!!!
Having left the area years ago, i am not sure if they are still there or not. There were at least a couple of dozen.

VALIANT XD857 COCKPIT Q

Thanks for update and excellent info on the Vulcan and Valiant cockpits.
If you don’t mind me asking, how complete is the Valiant inside and how do you gain entry to it?

Only just noticed this query after coming back to the thread, sorry for the delay to date. The Valiant is a sectioned flight deck and was unfortunately not kept whole before I acquired it. I have main panels and some other equipment while access is simply by stepping onto the deck from behind. Currently this is not possible as she has been raised to a height that will allow some deking to be built immediately behind her flight level crossbeam.

In time the rear will be given an entrance way and boarded off at back, the main problem is making her a sealed unit once more to prevent insect and animal/bird ingress. She really needs to be inside if only to remove her from the vagaries of the English weather and there is corrosion in many areas including her floor and inner windows, but I can’t see this happening and so she will be looked at as soon as time and money allow.

VULCAN CDT – FITTING OUT AS INTERACTIVE

Thanks GOKONE, nice to see they are all intact like you said.

I dont know personally if other CDT’s were at Scampton and Finningley, but hopefully someone will be able to recall something, yours certainly sounds like the last surviving one from what I can judge after looking at an old Vulcan Cockpits listing.

I remember seeing on a website a shot of a kitted out pilot exiting a Vulcan CDT while training some years ago, might have been on the ‘558 site or a Vulcan site, but its a shame that the others didn’t survive as they are relatively light and as you can still get kit for them they would make good exhibits for adults and kids alike.

It would be relatively easy to deepen the rear stb’d exit to rear-crew level and make it a ‘walk’-thru’ exhibit like the B.1 example at Cosford, though I would only make it ‘in’ and ‘out’ from the stb’d side only, with an overseer to preside over and explain things to visitors.

The potential to make it a ‘live’ and more interactive example re displays and audio-visual adds to the appeal and a sound system with pilots talking to the control tower and doing take-off checks etc in the background would add to an atmosphere of winking lights and illuminated radar sets etc, especially in the rear crew positions.

VULCAN CDT REAR DESK PIC

It might have been a ‘Quote’ reply which dosen’t give you the paper clip option, as opposed to a ‘Post Reply’ response, will have to look out for that – here’s the pic anyway.

Cheers

VULCAN CDT

There’s been a lot of the history of the CDT in this thread but what about the future, any plans? It looks like it would make a good exhibit in a museum, the interior would be accessible without having to climb fifteen feet. It’s a shame for it to be hidden away.

I KNOW, THE ORIGINAL PLAN WAS TO CREATE A DISPLAY BOARD AREA BELOW THE PILOTS IN THE EMPTY AREA UP TO THE FRONT OF THE BOMB AIMERS POSITION, USING THE VERTICAL SUPPORTS BELOW AS MOUNTING POINTS, WITH A MONITOR SCREEN THAT COULD SHOW CD’S ALONG WITH PHOTOGRAPHS AND CAPTIONING.

AFTER COLLECTING MANY OF THE INTERNAL PARTS A REAL COCKPIT CAME ALONG HOWEVER SO THE CDT IS SURPLUS TO REQUIREMENTS NOW AND I’D LIKE TO FIND IT A HOME THAT WILL TAKE UP THE BATON AND GIVE IT COVER AND AS ALSO MENTIONED IN PREVIOUS MAILS, FIND A RADOME TO MAKE IT ‘WHOLE’ ONCE MORE.

IT WOULD NEED FITTING OUT WITH REAL KIT AT FRONT, THOUGH BELOW THE PANELS WOULD TAKE SOME DOING AS THERE IS NO MAJOR RUDDER BAR ASSEMBLY OR PEDALS FITTED, BUT ITS A REAL COCKPIT WITH CORRECT DIMENSIONS ETC SO THE REAR AND FRONT COULD BE INSTRUMENTED IN TIME, WITH RACKING CONSTRUCTED TO TAKE THE REAR PANELS AND RELATED BLACK BOXES ETC.

(SORRY ABOUT CAPS, JUST LOOKED UP TO FIND THEY WERE LOCKED ON)

Have attached a pic of rear desk which is very clean and waiting for a suitable fitting-out operation to commence one day, the simulator rear metal panels were not to production standard and were ‘fitted out’ with photos only. The three rear seats are intact as per the front ejector examples and the pilot’s ladder to the cockpit area intact.

Incidentally without wanting to start another thread, a friend in Norfolk has mailed me to say he can’t make Shoreham aeromart due to the fuel cost let alone pitch fees while another couple in Warcs can’t make it either due to the same consideration so we’ll have to see how many outside the London counties catchment area attend on 26th.

Cheers

NB Have just noticed again that there is no paper clip symbol at top to attach anything, only a URL envelope symbol is available which is no good as the image is on my computer – I’ll have to try sending pic separately.

There’s been a lot of the history of the CDT in this thread but what about the future, any plans? It looks like it would make a good exhibit in a museum, the interior would be accessible without having to climb fifteen feet. It’s a shame for it to be hidden away.

Thanks GOKONE, nice to see they are all intact like you said.

I dont know personally if other CDT’s were at Scampton and Finningley, but hopefully someone will be able to recall something, yours certainly sounds like the last surviving one from what I can judge after looking at an old Vulcan Cockpits listing.