Vulcan XH558 future – what to replace it with?

No, I think the Heyford were dismantled, wrapped in oilcloth, crated and carefully buried just by the PAPI on the main at Birmingham Jasper Carrott International.

Moggy

I thought they were Handley Page Heyfords

And don’t forget the HP.42, and the secret supply of Jupiters from Czech, that we’ve been hearing about for about 15 years now!

I’m assuming he means restorable airframes from before 1939, which is largely true. Unless the rumour of twelve Boulton Paul Sidestrands that were dismantled, wrapped in oilcloth, crated and carefully buried outside Melton Constable proves to be true.

Moggy

Pre-war stuff is extinct ! Really ?

As for believing media accounts, my own personal experience of the media reporting on things I have been involved with and know about would suggest it is best to retain an open mind. Hence the original question I posted.

There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two. 🙂

As you might guess, I’m as cynical as the next guy, but for something as ultimately as inconsequential/harmless as air show attendance, I’m willing to believe the organizers and VTTS.
If attendance was up, I’d like to believe its because the general public wanted to see something they hadn’t seen before (or if you’re of a certain age, in a long time).
Hopefully, that success will inspire a group to restore or fly something interesting.

From where I sit, and certainly I could be wrong, I think the general population of the UK is proud of its past efforts and successes…so they are a market to see aircraft from the glory days of UK aviation.
The WWII types are pretty well covered, prewar stuff is extinct…so that leads us to the 50s and 60s. Properly marketed, they could be a hit. To bad a Vulcan can’t be airworthy indefinitely as the cornerstone of a display team ranging from Meteors and Canberras to Lightnings and Harriers.

I’m sure they’re thankful for your support.

I was a print subscriber for well over 10 years until I found the articles were moving away from my area of interest.

Define VTTS success? I admire their tenacity at getting people to donate over and over again with the perpetual crises announced in the media, I also admire the effort of those who have managed to maintain it in airworthy condition.
But, as others have indicated in other posts on this thread, most people still seem unaware of the Vulcan fleets’ context,they just seem to like a loud pointy thing. This is fair enough, and it is great that some others seem to love the aircraft but does it merit the hagiography?
As for believing media accounts, my own personal experience of the media reporting on things I have been involved with and know about would suggest it is best to retain an open mind. Hence the original question I posted.

There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two. 🙂

And the point I was trying to make is that the organisers believed there was an effect but can we ever be sure?

WE don’t have to be sure of anything…it’s up to the organizers, since they risk their money and make the bookings.

No, I don’t actually. Gave up,years ago.

I’m sure they’re thankful for your support.
But if you don’t read the media accounts of the VTTS success, I’m not sure why you questioned the existence of the “effect” in the first place.

To counter that I have twice been disappointed by its non- appearance and the voices in a wide area where I was standing sharing the disappointment were much in evidence.

The magazine which sponsors this forum has said that there was a “Vulcan effect”. Really, does anyone here actually read the thing?

No, I don’t actually. Gave up,years ago
And the point I was trying to make is that the organisers believed there was an effect but can we ever be sure?
I haven’t seen it fly, I was at a show it was booked to go to once but…..it didn’t arrive. I wasn’t there to see it so wasn’t bothered.

At the end of the day if it gets people through the gates a proportion of whose cash supports the museum or other designated “causes” it really doesn’t matter why people attend.

It seems pretty clear that there was/is a very significant “Vulcan Effect” (ask the Cosford show organisers for example). But as I mentioned previously, one has to question what is really going on, and whether the effect is mostly created by true Vulcan enthusiasts or people who simply pick-up on media “buzz”. From what I’ve seen and heard, an awful lot is in the latter category (and as I said before, the same applied with the Lancasters).

I’ve seen comments that the ‘Vulcan Effect’ boosts attendances by 20-40% but not any backup to where those figures come from

I do recall some exchanges about it a year ago and I’m sure that Waddington organisers and a couple of other venues strongly believed in the “effect”. But I am unaware that any polling amongst spectators has ever been carried out.

Is there much hard evidence that having the Vulcan attend a show boosted numbers visiting significantly? That ‘ordinary punters’ (whoever they might be) went just because it was there?
Or is the Emperors’ New Clothes syndrome?

The magazine which sponsors this forum has said that there was a “Vulcan effect”. Really, does anyone here actually read the thing?
Not being in the motherland to take crowd numbers, I’ll take their word for it.
I’m sure VTTS feels it was a crowd draw, and the organizers of various events would be easy enough to check.

Wow! An aircraft that was one of the RAF’s most successful, capable and valuable aircraft ever “did a whole lot of nothing” and the Shackleton “did very little”. I sometimes wonder whether some aircraft enthusiasts actually know anything about the aircraft that they enthuse about?! 🙂

Only an enthusiast would know what a Shackleton was.I love them and would go and see one fly but your average family is not going to be swayed by seeing it’s name on a list of participants.

Likewise, any family comprising members too young to remember the Cold War would probably not care about the Vulcan either. When I was a kiddo I was only aware of Vulcan bombers because of the example at East Fortune. Even then, it didn’t cross my mind to find out if one was still flying or not.

Again, you would have to evaluate VTTS’s role in promoting the Vulcan. As argued elsewhere in this thread, it was a bomber that did a whole lot of nothing in the ’60s and belatedly punched a single hole in the runway at Port Stanley in the ’80s. Not exactly the same sort of track record as the Lancaster by any means. The Shackleton may fall into the same category, a deterrent aircraft that saw a lot of active duty doing fairly little. However it is a large aircraft capable of making a lot of noise and, like the Vulcan, it has a fairly unique tone in the form of that interesting mid-range growl. A few low passes and I’m sure you could enthrall a generation of spectators.

Is there much hard evidence that having the Vulcan attend a show boosted numbers visiting significantly? That ‘ordinary punters’ (whoever they might be) went just because it was there?
Or is the Emperors’ New Clothes syndrome?

Re 171

” half of the Vulcan’s audience didn’t really have clue what a Vulcan was.!

A few weeks ago it was the last day of Goodwood. My wife and I were having coffee and a bun in the cafe at Chichester Marina. There was a colossal roar overhead, everyone, bar one or two, ran outside to see, at about 800 feet a Canberra and a Hunter in close formation.

Some were asking what they were. No one knew. I mentioned what they were. I don’t think that there was one person, some of whom were clearly of middle age, that knew anything other than that they were aircraft.

….as well as some of the more spirited attempts to turn A-26s into leisure aircraft.

Many A/B-26 Invaders were used as corporate aircraft in the 50s. Several firms did conversions of the type in the pre-bizjet days. Some had new-build pressurized fuselages and were all fully CAA (the U.S. predecessor of the current FAA) approved. Unmodified warbirds were legally operated under Experimental, Restricted or Limited certificates, depending on the type. Some warbirds were never allowed to fly civilly at all.
It wasn’t as “cowboy” as many seem to incorrectly think.

Much as I love the back and forth on this thread its much the same arguments as we’ve heard in other places. I suppose the only way we’re really going to see who notices the Shackleton is by getting her flying and watching the reaction! Even then I don’t think we’ll be able to match the Vulcan for public support, the reach of that aircraft into the public’s conciousness is just immense. It flies and near everyone watches.

Try getting a burger at an airshow while the Vulcan is displaying… service in seconds, and no queues! :p

Regards,

Rich