Vulcan XL319 – Sunderland

The friendly reception is a good point.On a slightly different tack, if I’m ignored in a shop, (not one of these warehouses where you get pounced on from all directions), I’ll walk out in a minute or two. If somebody acknowledges me and says they’ll be with me as soon as they can, I’ll wait for weeks.

I think it’s all probably down to attitude.

Good job at NEAM they are responsive to customers need then! (and don’t have to work out whether you are in warehouse mode and don’t want to be approached or are in shop mode and do want to be approached! They are good but are not mind readers):rolleyes:

I think it goes back to – yes please criticise if you can come up with other solutions (and you would be welcome to volunteer at any time) But remember the small aircraft museums in this country have collected a very impressive range of aircraft that would have been scrapped otherwise (NEAM has e.g. the only F86D in the country one of only two F84’s, the last British production aircraft to hold the world air speed record) and others have equally significant airframes.

I suppose the answer is to get involved as Scott C has pointed out

Hi All

The problem most museums have with caring for there exibits is a mixture of two things money and having people to do the work. Most museums cant pay there staff and run on the good will of people. Take doncaster and elvington again, ive worked at both and elvington is a good place and atracts many people to work there but most of there time is spent moving around aircraft and looking after there live aircraft. (The victor team work as a sepeate group helping out the museum when needed). But doncaster is at the other end of the scale. Its a small museum site with a lot of restoration projects waiting in the wings its not as high profile as elvington and as such dosnt atract as many helpers. The small group of us at doncaster are doing as much as we can but everything has to wait it’s turn and its not just the aircraft that have to be looked after there is the day to day site running as well ( cutting the grass manning the shop decorating restoring the buildings on site) but we do what we can. I suspect this is the main reson that suderlands vulcan is in the condition it is.

So it time to get of your bums and go help out somewhere.

Rant over

Scott C

The friendly reception is a good point.

On a slightly different tack, if I’m ignored in a shop, (not one of these warehouses where you get pounced on from all directions), I’ll walk out in a minute or two. If somebody acknowledges me and says they’ll be with me as soon as they can, I’ll wait for weeks.

I think it’s all probably down to attitude.

Thanks for the interesting replies – I think you have hit a point re the atmosphere. One of the “problems” NEAM has is that we are on a part of the old airfield but the only remaining extant part of that is the drains! The main building is a relatively new structure and simply filling it with aircraft does not create the atmosphere. However this is being addressed. The issues are still there regarding getting enough volunteers and then getting volunteers who are willing to do other things rather than working on aircraft. Sundays usually is full of work and volunteers – that really is a reflection of when people are free – though the museum does have a burgeoning number of volunteers during the week now.

That is only a small part though of getting things done – those of you who are involved will know that you need volunteers to serve on the committee / board and all of this takes time too (I served as a Director for 9 years and in that time did very little restoration – but did write a lot of press releases!) It’s extremely difficult to get people to do that too yet is vital for the survival of the museum.

As for signposting – the museum is signposted all the way from the A19 to the museum gate – the only sign missing is when to turn left into the museum. I won’t tell you how long it took to get the relevant road maintenance authorities to put back signs that were taken down previously but needless to say it caused a lot of hair pulling:rolleyes:

Pro active v Reactive staff? I wasn’t there on the day but do know that both people who generally man the shop will give a brief explanation about the museum etc. Not sure how useful it would be telling someone they would love to give you a tour but can’t – I think that may give out a confusing message. In my experience if someone is around they will chat to visitors and will explain things – I think there is a fine line to tread by telling someone that something could have been on offer but isn’t. From a PR point of view it is much better to project a consistent message with additional bonuses rather than raising expectations and dashing people’s hopes.

I agree with the comment about aircraft looking good on the outside – the policy for a long time was to deep restore the aircraft – until it was realised that this left us with technically intact aircraft that looked half finished – as I mentioned in my previous post a number are now painted (and I must apologise to my colleagues as I missed off the Canberra which has also been painted!) and look good. This means people come back and see “complete” aircraft and a museum moving forward.

Thanks for your comments – I’ll pass them on to the present committee as I know they will be interested!

As to a friendly reception – if you had approached the people behind the counter and asked them any questions you would have found that they would be only too happy to talk to you and (depending on who you managed to speak to ) you could have got a very good and informative tour. The only problem with this is that someone needs to man the shop (the museum wouldn’t get money coming in if there is no one there to collect it )

Troy

I think you described the staff being RE active, e.g.. waiting to be asked, when it makes a BIG difference if they were PRO active e.g.. offering to help, even if as you suggested they couldn’t for what ever reason, just a brief explanation to say that they were sorry but had to man the shop/new…etc. & that all the other staff were on holiday/at an airshow or what ever.

A lot of people are too ‘shy’ to ask questions, & just that first brief contact could lead to another volunteer !

Would you rather visitors walk away having formed there own (possibly negative ) opinions or walk away being informed & thinking how helpful & friendly the staff were even if they couldn’t actually help much ?

The “feeling” of anywhere is something that just happens, it can’t be bought or organised.
Two at the opposite ends of the spectrum are Elvington and Aeroventure at Doncaster.
Elvington just feels a nice place. On the other hand, a few years ago, they replaced the teapots and real tea in their cafe (the NAAFI) with a bl**dy awful machine. Used to really enjoy calling in there but it ruined the NAAFI for us and, despite being relatively minor, coloured the entire day. Probably done for very good reasons, although I can’t believe anybody would think a drinks machine could be an improvement. Must go again soon.
At Aeroventure a few months ago they tried, gently, to pressgang me into helping. This caused ferocious scowling from Mrs DHFan and assorted muttering about gardens, decorating etc.
They had no chance anyway as they wanted help to finish their magnificent Whirlwind restoration and I’m with Moggy on eggbeaters.

Hi Troy,
I realise how difficult it is to run a museum with limited resources, I wasn’t having a bash at the museum,the aircraft or the folks who run it.My point was more about the atmosphere of the place,which probably sounds daft but I really felt there was something lacking.I’ve been to other small museums such as Tangmere and the DH Museum (where Bruce works,although this was a few years back) and they had a more positive atmosphere.
It’s a difficult thing to pin down,but it has something to do with the way information is presented,the appearance of the place in general,condition of exhibits,content of info boards etc.
As DHfan said,it just ‘felt’ like nothing was happenning at NEAM, the place was ghostly quiet on a weekend afternoon,both in terms of staff and visitors.The biggest surprise to me was that signposting thing-if you wanted to attract visitors then surely decent signposting would be the first thing to sort out?
As for offering time to the museum,and museums in general,I’d be happy to,but unfortunately I live in London and was only up in the North East visiting my sister.As for museums closer to me,I did offer my time to the RAFM at Hendon a few years back and was told I wasn’t needed,and recieved a similar reply from the IWM at Lambeth.I can’t drive as yet,but when I get that sorted out I’ll be able to look further afield,eg Dh Museum,Brooklands etc.

Troy (excellent handle BTW!)

Yes, some of us are involved in aircraft preservation, and we know exactly what its like. Particularly at this time of year, the enthusiasm for working outside runs out, and we are back in the hangar blowing on our hands!

The most important thing for any museum is to have as much under cover as possible. That alone bodes well for the future of the museum.

The problem is that many people look at the outside of an aircraft, and that colours their perception of its actual condition. We have what is now a very nice looking 125, but its shot to pieces on the inside! The Vulcan in question may be the opposite!

That said, all of the aircraft in museums that are kept outside have a finite life span. The Vulcans are the thin end of the wedge!

And I would restate your plea for help. Anyone on this board who is within twenty miles of a museum, PLEASE go and offer to lend a hand once a month. We will be only too pleased to see you! I do a 250 mile round trip nearly every weekend to get to mine!

Cheers

Bruce

Well having been involved with the museum until earlier this year I feel I should reply as I’m not sure whether any of the existing committee read this forum.

Some interesting points made however it is I wonder how many people are actually involved in restoring aircraft? . It takes a lot of hard work to keep aircraft in a reasonable state let alone ones where they are kept outside. Work has progressed on the Vulcan in the last year (and certainly since the fellow moved away…. ) With a repaint started and some restoration work carried on. What any organisation like this needs is volunteers. If everyone who came up, looked around and criticised gave a museum one Sunday a month of their time any volunteer run museum would be able to increase the amount of restoration work immensely.

I don’t know when some of you last visited however the Vampire T11, T-33, Shorts 330, F-100 have all undergone painting and restoration, the F-86 is in the process of being repainted into Sabre Knights colours and the new display hall is getting new displays set up. Not bad for a small organisation with a dedicated core of volunteers.

Not sure about the info boards as all the aircraft have a generic history and an individual history on their boards. Where there is no info because it is a recovered piece of Wreckology there is no info.. simple as that.

As to a friendly reception – if you had approached the people behind the counter and asked them any questions you would have found that they would be only too happy to talk to you and (depending on who you managed to speak to ) you could have got a very good and informative tour. The only problem with this is that someone needs to man the shop (the museum wouldn’t get money coming in if there is no one there to collect it )
and the other person may have been a new member who was not able to show people around. A quick question could have established any of this – I must say that I’ve never been shown round another museum despite chatting to the staff on the door – but that could just be me!

As to not caring about the exhibits – the museum has the
majority of its exhibits undercover protected from the elements which any one will tell you is a massive boost to an aircrafts preservation. An awful lot of work and money went into making this happen. If the museum didn’t care then the hangars would not be there either.

I know the present committee welcome feedback from visitors and you have raised some issues (not least the sign posting!) – and I’ll get them to sort out the emails!!!

well isn’t this strange……

sent 2 emails both came back with undeliverable error. still havent received anything from the third one. It sure doesnt look good for a museum when their contact emails are no longer working…!??

Ant
Apart from not remembering any trouble (but that could be old age:)) finding the place, it sounds like a virtually identical experience to mine.
Most volunteer organisations change over time as different people come and go but it doesn’t sound like much has happened there.
I feel uncomfortable criticising anywhere when I’m not an active helper myself but the experience and impressions I got there didn’t bode well for the future.

hopefully something is doen soon

That doesn’t sound too good for the aircraft if noone is around to work on them .my email came back as address unknown so maybe they are in trouble??

I had a similar feeling to DHfan when I visited in the spring.We were there on a weekend and there were no staff about save a couple of guys who just stayed chatting behind the reception desk.No restoration work in progress at all (although there were plenty of aircraft in bits),and only a couple of other visitors in the time that we were there (about 3 hours).All in all it felt like a bit of a ghost town,perhaps because the museum is so poorly signposted-we were looking specifically for the museum and still managed to drive past the entrance without seeing it first time around.I thought it would’ve been polite for atleast one of the guys behind the desk to come out and talk to us as we went round,but we were left to our own devices the whole time.
The info boards were also a bit ‘starchy’,with very little personal info about the aircraft,just the serial number,where the aircraft came from and how long it’s been at the museum.As an example,they have the wing of a P40B Tomahawk which was recovered in the 70’s.There was no mention of the incident the aircraft was lost in,or who might’ve been killed in it etc,just a placard that said something like ‘Wing from P40 Tomahawk,recovered at such and such a date’,and that was it. The He111 fuselage they have on display next to it was equally poorly annotated.
When we left,we drove away feeling that we’d just been looking at bits of metal,rather than historic aeroplanes.

Its very difficult to assess the overall condition of the aircraft on the basis of 2 pictures. I would suspect that it is not completely beyond redemption at this point.

BUT

To adequately secure its future, it would need an awful lot of work doing – much of it of a specialised nature, such as landing gear repairs. It also definitely needs a hangar. I dont like to criticise the work of other volunteer organisations, cos I know what the issues are. Its very difficult to look after airframes such as this. We have a team of about seven working on our Heron, which is a couple of sizes of magnitude smaller. Transpose that to the Vulcan, and you can see that you need a large team to look after such a beast. Those museums that currently have a good team looking after their large aircraft will probably see them preserved. Those that arent receiving regular maintenance probably only have one future 🙁

Cheers

Bruce

I think if you carry out any work once it got to that condition it is a waste of time. The best thing for her would be a sympathetic
spares recovery/ remove the nose and smelt the rest.

XL319 waiting a response..

This is really sad I am going to email them and see what they say about the vulcan. It is a damn shame that she was very well looked after until that fellow moved away. Surely someone else could look after her a bit more. The shot of her exhausts looks bad but most of that appears to be surface corrosion that could be easily removed..?

🙁 :confused:

PS emailed NEAM waiting to hear back from them about 319

It looks like its going the same way as the Blackpool Vulcan 🙁

In 20 years we will not have many Vulcans left unless peole do something soon.

She looked pretty grim about 6 years ago. Time hasn’t helped.
NEAM is the only aircraft museum I’ve ever come away from feeling despondent. There must be some there that care but they weren’t in evidence the day I visited.

This is what happens when you keep static aeroplanes outside in the sea air.

This is also why the Concorde on USS Intrepid will corrode to mush inside twenty years.

I had a look round her about 3 years ago and she looked rough then. Much as I wish it was otherwise I can see this particular airframe heading for the scrapper within 5 years. Anyone know if the NEAM has any plans to prove me wrong?