W E W Petter, the forgotten designer?

The bit of Petter history whilst at Follands which was missing from “Lysander to Lightning” was his brief spell on early Guided Weapons (GW). Just after WW2, Follands as a company found itself in a very similar position to English Electric i.e. they had developed into a large subcontractor to the primes but with practically no in house design capability. Of course 1945 – 50 Petter solved this problem for EE, but during this period, Folland’s strategy had been to picking up the very early GW work, namely the design/build of the Rocket Test Vehicle (RTV) 2 technology demonstrator. Just as Petter joined Folland’s, they were biding on the first generation radar guided air to air missile (AAM) project known as Red Dean, which they won. Indeed there is reason to believe Red Dean was awarded to Follands specifically because the Ministry knew of Petter’s capabilities. Petter performed the basic architectural lay out and preliminary design of this missile but Follands and Petters aspiration lay elsewhere and Red Dean was now a distraction. As the Midge project got underway they started lobbying the Ministry to move Red Dean onto another supplier. Eventually Red Dean went to Vickers where it flew successfully, developed into the Red Hebe but ultimately became a victim of 1957 defense review;- No fighters aircraft = no need for AAM’s.

Another book to add to your reading is “Folland Gnat – Sabre Slayer and Red Arrow” by Victor Bingham ISBN 1-900511-78-9, Loads of anecdotes of working with Petter at Follands i.e. the first Midge was built from surplus RTV2 program sheet metal.

Totally agree with Judwin regarding the book “Adventure with Fate” by Harald Penrose, an excellent read in my opinion, plus it was that very same book that first fuelled my interest in the Wyvern all those years ago!

Rob

Westland was founded in 1915 as part of the war effort by the management of Petters Oil engines. Indeed, it was originally known as ‘the Westland Aircraft Works of Petter’s’
Petters were the family company and the twin brothers; Ernest and Percival controlled the company.
Teddy Petter was the son of ‘Sir Ernest’

In order to get an insight into young Teddy Petter, one needs to read Harald Penrose’s autobiography ‘Adventure With Fate’
Teddy himself was a very complex character, not an easy man to work with, who rarely gave praise, an odd mixture of assertiveness and aloof reserve.
Westland designer Arthur Davenport made a significant input to a lot of Petters work and thinking, Harald Penrose was a stabilising influence, who Petter trusted. Please be aware that none of these comments are intended to downgrade Petters ability.

Essential reading: Adventure With Fate and from Lysander to Lightning.
I would also like to reaffirm the of the principal object of this thread is to try to gather some information on the Folland years. But please don’t stop the discussion.

I think we are all agreed that Teddy Petter ranks as one of the greats, and deserves his place in history.

Quite agree with all that’s been said above, not enough recognition of great designer but hopefully with the 100 year anniversary this year his name will be put up there with the greats of Britsh aircraft design.

Just as a foot note and hopefully not too much thread drift 3 of us have purchased Piston Provost G-MOOS this week and hopefully will be back airborne later this year from Yeovilton more info to follow.

I think he was the grandson of the founder of Petters Engines. He was certainly part of the same Somerset family.

Does anyone know if this Petter was the designer of a range of small diesel engines widely used in small boats – among other applications?

…the Midge fighter would have greater sales overseas except the big players in the world had access to pots of money which helped sales via bribes.

Before we go off on yet another “UK aviation done dirty by conspiracy/Politics” rants…remember that the “big players” in France, the US and even the UK (Hawker and DH) could offer aircraft built in volume with lower prices, more or less “free” aircraft via NATO, US offshore procurement and MAP, the availability of slightly used aircraft from RAF stocks, not to mention greater commonality with allies, easier access to spares, training, upgrades. All this is before any aircraft qualities or limitations are taken into account.

Typically, a smaller aircraft will have less capability or will be a “one role” aircraft. The lack of multi-role or growth capability has cost many a promising aircraft meaningful careers.

Completely agree with everything said. Another boyhood hero and I have never understood why his record never gained the plaudits of some of his contemporaries.

Good to read of recognition the Folland Midge which also became the Gnat was in my view a superb idea and in my slightly cynical view the Midge fighter would have greater sales overseas except the big players in the world had access to pots of money which helped sales via bribes.