Waddington Today inc Gnat+Arrows

He also did it from take off!!

The Farley rocket was always very impressive indeed. We are very fortunate that John is a frequent visitor and lecturer at our university, and whenever someone mentions this steep climb-out to him, a big grin comes across his face!

The GR7 and AV8B have 250 pounds extra thrust than the SHAR and with that big wing, much improved lift. The steep “Farley” climb has always been a part of both Harriers display routine. The RAF displays are longer with more “conventional flight” passes- I wouldnt say that the SHAR is a better display at all, unless its a 2 ship!!

I can’t remember the exact figures for thrust of a Mk105 Pegasus as fitted to the GR7 compared to the 104/106 fitted to the SHAR, but the current RAF display is using the GR7A which has in the region of 2,000lb more thrust than the GR7. One thing the SHAR was doing at waddington that I had never seen before was an agressive aft stick manoeuvre from the hover (looked like a braking stop bow in reverse!). Very nice. And IMHO, the SHAR somehow always manages to make the Farley climb look a lot more impressive than the GR (although I have heard stories to the effect that they are both quite tame compared to the great man himself.

Just a detail point but not all Harrier displays are the same. Up to last year at least, the RAF Harrier was not allowed to do the very steep climb from the hover that the RN Sea Harrier has been doing for some years. I gather the Sea Harrier has slightly more thrust (for operation of carriers perhaps) and the RAF were wary of emulating this.

The GR7 and AV8B have 250 pounds extra thrust than the SHAR and with that big wing, much improved lift. The steep “Farley” climb has always been a part of both Harriers display routine. The RAF displays are longer with more “conventional flight” passes- I wouldnt say that the SHAR is a better display at all, unless its a 2 ship!!

Just a detail point but not all Harrier displays are the same. Up to last year at least, the RAF Harrier was not allowed to do the very steep climb from the hover that the RN Sea Harrier has been doing for some years. I gather the Sea Harrier has slightly more thrust (for operation of carriers perhaps) and the RAF were wary of emulating this.

Also, since we had 2 Harriers, it was good to see one was a Sea Harrier. To the general public (including me quite frankly) one Harrier can do pretty much the same things as any other Harrier. Having them in different colours – RAF GR7 in grey and RN Sea Harrier in blue is the only thing that sets them apart.

But the SHAR display is better than the GR7 display!! Always has been!
What did anyone think of the Hunter display?

Dave
[i]What all done in the air?

YES! they were all in the air! They were similar though. The Sea Harrier and the RAF Harrier both put on similiar displays (very good ones Im not denying) including a high speed pass, nod to the crowd etc. The Tornadoes also put on similar displays with perhaps the F3s being more energetic. These slots could have been filled with a little more variety.

Hatton – not the first time Waddington have had 3 Tornado displays each day, I went when the Thunderbirds were there. I also found that seeing 8, sorry 9 (just checked) Tornado’s lined up in the static – all grey or green, somewhat dull, I seem to remember some 5 x F16’s as well. I found out later that they had turned down other aircraft for the static, mainly vintage stuff, as they “had no room left for static aircraft” – still I suppose as its the RAF’s show they can pack it with what they see fit. However they did have many good items there as well!

Quite the reverse this year as the static was padded out with JPs and other vintage stuff – all very welcome but not in such great numbers (or bizarre schemes!)This is the RAFs major show (apparantly, but having a quick look at the Leuchars web site -they have a much better variety of military visitors) and should be a NATO show case . I think it was a very weak show this year.

Hatton – not the first time Waddington have had 3 Tornado displays each day, I went when the Thunderbirds were there. I also found that seeing 8, sorry 9 (just checked) Tornado’s lined up in the static – all grey or green, somewhat dull, I seem to remember some 5 x F16’s as well. I found out later that they had turned down other aircraft for the static, mainly vintage stuff, as they “had no room left for static aircraft” – still I suppose as its the RAF’s show they can pack it with what they see fit. However they did have many good items there as well!

I think its great to see special schemes on military aircraft. Major anniversaries ( the German Navies 90th and the squadrons 40th in these cases plus the fact that this is their last year of operating fjs) should be a time of celebration and a bit of chance for some national pride. These days absolutely everything inc trainers, transports, liaison types etc are going grey and they all look the same. Big grey blobs the lot of ’em. God bless the Germans, French and Italians (in the main) for adding a splash of colour in these depressingly lo-viz times.

All this is beginning to get in the way now Dave, so post a “last one” and we’ll call it a day, OK? Hope you enjoyed the show anyway.

Les,

We agree on this posted by Plazz:

My advice is enjoy them while their here as one day not so long from now you’ll be telling you children/grand children when visiting museums how you used to see them fly.

and we both enjoyed the show (I did anyway – apart from the rain) so I’m not really sure what we’re arguing about anymore…. 😀

Anyway, it helps pass the day so thanks. 😉

Dave

Of course it’s a double standard, that’s the point. And “rare and priceless”, OK, the Mustang gibe was a bit off the cuff, but you get the point I hope. (Mustangs “rare”? Surely not). 🙂

Now then , don’t start me off on this one today!!!! In spite of what many think around here the Mustang is still a rare aircraft but survives in greater numbers than some because it is a ‘practical’ warbird and you can take a friend with you if you wanted (in most).

first Airshow appearance of the Cat, etc, etc…

Sorry to be pedantic, but her first airshow appearance was at Southend at the end of May

Dave

Of course it’s a double standard, that’s the point. And “rare and priceless”, OK, the Mustang gibe was a bit off the cuff, but you get the point I hope. (Mustangs “rare”? Surely not). 95% of the public seem to spend 95% of their time setting up tented villages, defending their canvas “forts” and playing impromptu games of football, but then maybe that was just the area where I was. 🙁 Wouldn’t call myself a “knowledgeable enthusiast” though Dave, just an ordinary bloke.

Also, if they are “war tools not “fun” machines” then why is it OK to nickname them after a childs toy??

Liked that, nice return. It’s OK to nickname them because it’s the way that RAF blokes deal with the implied horrors of war – at least it was when I was “in” – ‘s called banter. All this is beginning to get in the way now Dave, so post a “last one” and we’ll call it a day, OK? Hope you enjoyed the show anyway. 🙂

Yeah, it was a bit of a shame about the content this year, but to be fair the organisers did let us know in advance what the programme was, including the cancellations. I do still enjoy Waddo (have to, it’s my only airshow of the year) and the current military situation means that we do have to put up with what’s on offer. Seeing as how most Air Forces in Europe either have Tonkas or F-16’s you ain’t gonna get the variety of old. Despite that, we got Phantoms, NZ Orion, first Airshow appearance of the Cat, etc, etc…

To any of the staff at Waddington who may be reading, you guys did a grand job and I will be back next year!

DaveTend to agree with Plazz and his sentiments. However, it would be nice to see the sort of displays the RAF used to give a few years back, with ground attack demonstrations, multiple fly-bys and proper airfield breaks.

Leuchars is promising a ground attack scenario this year, from their website http://www.airshow.co.uk/

A thrilling display of air power simulating an airfield attack. Watch Tornado F3 fighters (43 (F) Sqn) scramble to defend RAF Leuchars, with Tornado GR4 bombers (14 Sqn) and Hawk T1A fighters (100 Sqn) posing as the enemy.

Although Leuchars also list 3 separate F16’s in the flying display

Dave
. . . see THREE Tornados (count ’em), I’d rather see one in a fun scheme in preference to all three in grey

These aircraft are war tools not “fun” machines. Strangely though, I don’t feel bad about colourful “squadron” identifications – nor zapps! But consider what your reaction would be if one of the ubiquitous Mustangs showed up looking like that German Tonka and painted like a christmas tree decoration.

This is quite possibly a double standard, but to me at least that is just not the same…… The Tornado is not (yet) a rare and priceless historic machine.

The bottom line is that if the German Tornado had been in military grey then it wouldn’t have stood out from the other Tornado displays. Probably 95% of the crowd took notice because of its colour. As a “knowledgeable enthusiast” this may seem strange to you but that is the reality.

Also, if they are “war tools not “fun” machines” then why is it OK to nickname them after a childs toy?? :confused: 😉 😀

Dave
. . . see THREE Tornados (count ’em), I’d rather see one in a fun scheme in preference to all three in grey

These aircraft are war tools not “fun” machines. Strangely though, I don’t feel bad about colourful “squadron” identifications – nor zapps! But consider what your reaction would be if one of the ubiquitous Mustangs showed up looking like that German Tonka and painted like a christmas tree decoration. (And yes, I’m not that comfortable with the Red Bull Vixen or Miss Demeanor either – but those are both privateers.)

Hatton
My thoughts too, the displays were pretty similar . .

What all done in the air? :rolleyes: The way this gvmt’s going you’ll be glad to see even one Tonka next year.

Tend to agree with Plazz and his sentiments. However, it would be nice to see the sort of displays the RAF used to give a few years back, with ground attack demonstrations, multiple fly-bys and proper airfield breaks.

My advice is enjoy them while their here as one day not so long from now you’ll be telling you children/grand children when visiting museums how you used to see them fly.

Absolutely.

The way I see it is that it was good to see three Tornados and two Harriers on the flying. Let me explain: the Marineflieger are no longer operating fixed wing aircraft after this year, so it may well be the last display by the German navy.
The F3’s days are numbered as more Typhoons come on strength the last thing the RAF will do is show off its poor dog fighting predecessor. And as for the GR4, well they just rock any way.

By next year the Harrier GR7’s will be upgraded to the GR9 if there are no more cut backs, and we all know the Sea Harriers in its last display season and will be completely retired come 2006.

My advice is enjoy them while their here as one day not so long from now you’ll be telling you children/grand children when visiting museums how you used to see them fly.

Plazz