Waddington – Verdict?

I understand what you’re saying, but can you imagine if, say, those aircraft were all parked along the disused runway where the Lanc parked on Sunday. It would be a nightmare shifting barriers (and crowds) to allow aircraft in and out, it just wouldn’t work.

Believe me, the regulations defining what constitutes a display and what constitutes a flypast are very strict – the screws were particularly tightened after the Nimrod crashed at the Toronto airshow. I’ve felt very foolish (not to mention fraudulent) in the past few years flying past a crowd of eager punters in my Sea King (always best flown low!) at 1000′

I understand aircraft can not be parked on the grass. Last year The Vulcan was parked on a taxi way with barriers around to give public access and access to the runway. I think it was up near the Air Warfare building in front of the B52.

A pass along the display line with a slight bank for good photographs is not in my opinion a major display manouver.

What about the static display aircraft flying in on the Saturday parking as static displays on the crowd line (where the Vulcan was parked last year) and flying out on the Sunday.

Static aircraft at Waddo are parked on the taxiway. Do you mean park on the grass in front of the crowd line? That would be a logistical nightmare, leave the aircraft and crews too far from the crowd, and be limited to smaller types that could taxy on grass.

Operational aircraft like the Nimrod and Sentry making a flypast instead of just landing.

They did. Also, one of our very rare Tristars made an appearance, on both days (thanks 216 Sqn – I’ll never slag off your cardboard sarnies again).

I understand crews are not display authorised but but a flypast with a nice top side view could be done.

Er – that’ll be a display then…….

What about the static display aircraft flying in on the Saturday parking as static displays on the crowd line (where the Vulcan was parked last year) and flying out on the Sunday.

Operational aircraft like the Nimrod and Sentry making a flypast instead of just landing.

I understand crews are not display authorised but but a flypast with a nice top side view could be done.

I hope the display director comes back to the forum to discuss the show.

Ben

sargs

I wholly agree, some just don’t understand that because you can fly the aircraft you are not necessarily authorised to display it.

The £21.00 gate admission was a bit steep for a poor show however the cheek of me i said to the guy selling tickets “any discount for raffars members”?, he said id charge you just £10.00 great and im no member!

Great – another tenner less for charity……………..

The main problem with aircraft static, and not displaying, is that to display these days you need to be selected, practiced, supervised and authorised – taking up a great deal of time for a pilot and/or crew, and imposing more of a strain on the crews not chosen. It’s relatively easy to fly your aircraft to a place like Waddo (the only cost to you is another weekend away from family), displaying is a whole different ballgame. Waddo was a bit thin, I agree – but there are very good reasons, and the organisers do more than their best.

The £21.00 gate admission was a bit steep for a poor show however the cheek of me i said to the guy selling tickets “any discount for raffars members”?, he said id charge you just £10.00 great and im no member!

The show was poor by the years past standards for the crowd of 70,000 so i heard on the tannoy it really could have done with less long pauses more vintage aircraft.

But im off to legends this sat/sun plenty of vintage there.!

If you want to see military aircraft flying, might I suggest you visit Afghanistan or Iraq.

This is where they, and they are the doing the job THEY ARE SUPPOSED to be doing.

That is supporting ground troops who are fighting a war whether we like that or not.

Perhaps you didnt realise that the point of an airshow is publicity and recruitment. Thats why many of my freinds became interested and hence joined the armed forces.

I read about a free event in The Netherlands, which is rumoured to recruit 20% of new airman.

I disagree, the aircraft may belong to the RAF on paper but Joint Force Harrier is now a 50 50 RN/RAF organisation which includes aircrew and engineers on the sqns and in the bays. We even have RN personnel as chefs, writers, medics etc. It is worth noting that The Fleet Air Arm also does operate the only ‘Dark Blue’ single service squadron within JFH (as 1 and 4 are mixed service) and has proved its worth and capability on the many Herrick deployments.

Understand where you are coming from Stewart24 and I’m not denying the professionalism of any of the Naval personnel serving under the Joint Force Harrier.

What I am saying is, the FAA no longer have a completely stand alone, independent fast jet fighting force. Sure 800 & 801 NAS operate as ‘Dark Blue’ squadrons, but somehow it just doesn’t feel the same. I grew up next to a Naval Air Station and you could always expect to see Naval FJ’s attending & supporting the airshows etc (getting back on topic…), but somehow that support (for whatever reason) is lacking now. Here’s hoping that the ‘Fly Navy’ spirit of old is still alive somewhere…

Changing times I’m sure… anyway, this is way off thread, so best get back on track to keep the ‘feds’ happy 😉

Cheers!

I disagree, the aircraft may belong to the RAF on paper but Joint Force Harrier is now a 50 50 RN/RAF organisation which includes aircrew and engineers on the sqns and in the bays. We even have RN personnel as chefs, writers, medics etc. It is worth noting that The Fleet Air Arm also does operate the only ‘Dark Blue’ single service squadron within JFH (as 1 and 4 are mixed service) and has proved its worth and capability on the many Herrick deployments.

Is the Harrier GR9A not a real aircraft?

Don’t be fooled by that old chestnut. They might be crewed by FAA aviators, but the Fleet don’t really have an ‘Air Arm’ any more – that finished when the SHAR’s were retired a few years ago.

To quote from ‘Aircraft Illustrated’ a current Navy Lt Cdr (P) who flies the Sea Vixen who was talking about the ‘Fly Navy 100’ celebrations (or whatever it’s called) – “the Sea Vixen is the biggest thing the Navy hasn’t got”!!!

Sums it up for me really.

NickB, I think you may be disappointed again this FL weekend with the reenactors getting in shot.
A long stick with a nail in may help?

I say we add a bit more realism & shoot the ******s.:D:cool:

Why pay for private a/c to sit on the concrete?

I’ve just checked.

They aren’t paid, but do it for a free landing, a top up of the tanks and overnight accommodation

Moggy

NickB, I think you may be disappointed again this FL weekend with the reenactors getting in shot.
A long stick with a nail in may help?

There are a handful of well organised airshows still out there – Kemble & Flying Legends are two of them. FL just need to get rid of the (often fat) actors pretending to be something they’re not, standing in front of the a/c & ruining the pictures!! 😉

The actors I can put up with (you can always try asking them to move aside – it often works), it’s the fellas in yellow fluorescent jackets that annoy me (usually with “Press” across the back), they manage to get in the way with ease and seem to be deaf. If they truly are “press”, why not let them on the flight line half an hour (even an hour) before us paying punters and clear them out when we’re allowed in.

“I completely agree with your observation. The days of the great & varied airshows of the 70’s, 80’s & early 90’s (the years I can remember), are long since gone. Even the IAT (sorry, RIAT) isn’t what it used to be to my mind. But then again, 20 years ago the RAF (& other air forces) had so many different types or aircraft on their inventory. This variety just doesn’t exist any more, hence the ‘Vanilla’ line-up at airshows”.

I’m very much in agreement too with the above statement. The World has changed dramatically (perhaps the fall of the Berlin Wall helped) over the past 25 years and we are seeing the reflection of this in airshows today. I joined the RAF in 1986 (I know, get some in!) when we had over 90,000 personnel in light blue. Today we have around 40,000 and are coming towards the end of a massive recruitment drive to try and achieve “manning balance” of 41,000. My first tour was at RAF Finningley which had 7 different aircraft types (if you count the 2 different marks of Jet Provost in use then) just on that one station. Today the number of types RAF-wide has diminished dramatically. Not only that, as some others have pointed out, we are still pretty stretched operationally but the biggest problem is money. As taxpayers, I believe that we should all see our military aircraft display to us as often as we can but, unless we can convince the purse holders to spend much, much more on defence then it seems unlikely. Some people bemoan the fact that the RAF still doesn’t operate the Vulcan a la BBMF; several ex-Vulcan engineers I work with tell me that the RAF couldn’t wait to get rid of these 1950s technology manpower hungry behemoths! (OK so why do we still suffer with the VC10?) That said, I too was very disappointed that the Vulcan could not display at Waddington but others have said plenty about that already and I’m sure there’s more to come.

If you want to see military aircraft flying, might I suggest you visit Afghanistan or Iraq.

This is where they, and they are the doing the job THEY ARE SUPPOSED to be doing.

That is supporting ground troops who are fighting a war whether we like that or not.

That explains everything, silly me. In which case, why was it advertised as ‘The RAF’s Premier Aviation Spectacular’ and ‘the biggest and the best of the RAF’s annual airshows’.

Ok, I suppose there are only three RAF public airshows these days Cosford, Waddington and Leuchars but even so I have to say that managing expectations seems to have gone a bit awry here, don’t you think?

and the Fleet Arm don’t fly real aircraft anymore

Is the Harrier GR9A not a real aircraft?

If you want to see military aircraft flying, might I suggest you visit Afghanistan or Iraq.

This is where they, and they are the doing the job THEY ARE SUPPOSED to be doing.

That is supporting ground troops who are fighting a war whether we like that or not.

Just as well ZK009 was there for the number collectors I’d say and perhaps a significant omen for the future as to how things will be futher down the line…

I have to say that it is blindingly obvious (to me at least) that the days of the military airshow (let alone big military show) in this country are numbered and that apart from RIAT that we will be lucky to see more than a handful of operational fast jets.

Having said that, Fairford is a USAF base and it is a bit of an eye opener to see how few US military aircraft will be attending this year’s RIAT. Gone are the days of seemingly endless lines of KC-135/C-130 etc.

I completely agree with your observation. The days of the great & varied airshows of the 70’s, 80’s & early 90’s (the years I can remember), are long since gone. Even the IAT (sorry, RIAT) isn’t what it used to be to my mind. But then again, 20 years ago the RAF (& other air forces) had so many different types or aircraft on their inventory. This variety just doesn’t exist any more, hence the ‘Vanilla’ line-up at airshows.

For me (& others I suspect too) so much depends on one or two particular airframes showing up at an airshow (Vulcan, Sea Vixen etc) that if they can’t come for whatever reason, the rest of the airshow becomes a bit bland.

This is why I thought the Kemble air show organisers did such a fine job this year – great variety of aircraft, young & old that could be seen up close. It reminded me of airshows of old – of which there were many each year.

The worst airshow I’ve attended in recent years was Culdrose last year – it truly was appalling – billed as an airshow, but in fact was little more than a families day. The weather didn’t help, but that didn’t get away from the fact that the majority of the a/c were parked on the North side of the airfield and the hard-standing that used to display aircraft was used to show a motor-cycle display team and brass band. The RAF saved the day with their Tornado’s flying in truly appalling weather. I was so annoyed with the Navy that I was in two minds to approach the Captain during his walk-round to tell him what I thought – but what would have been the point – he had already taken my money and the Fleet Arm don’t fly real aircraft anymore, so what would he care?

There are a handful of well organised airshows still out there – Kemble & Flying Legends are two of them. FL just need to get rid of the (often fat) actors pretending to be something they’re not, standing in front of the a/c & ruining the pictures!! 😉