Walrus/Seagull V

I’ve posted some more pics relating to the Walrus questions at http://community.webshots.com/user/buchonalia
Enjoy!
Cheers

A2-4

Nope, not kidding, have a look at http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/supermarine-seagull-v.htm
for a piccie. My pictures are at home.

Good luck with your book. When / where was your uncle rescued?

Cheers

PS My last post shoul’ve IIRC all over it – haven’t got my notes to hand, so dates are a bit vague!

A2-4

We’ve got to remember that ALL the Walri / Seagull V on show have been restored from wrecks. A2-4 was flying and very nice too, but hit a stump on take off / landing when coming to the UK for the England Aus air race of the early 70s(?) and was damaged enough and unusual enough to be difficult to repair. A crew including John Chapman (he of the Southampton restoration) rebuilt the aircraft after the RAF Museum swapped it with Hockey for a Spit XVI.

The FAAM machine was rebuilt from a couple of wrecks, and the RAAF Machine was recovered from Heard Island, Antarctica, after 30 years (and was a real mess) and the restoration was just finished last year. As for D*ick Melton’s machine, Mark V has shown what happened there!

I’d say we are all the better off from the ‘deals’ as the type was almost extinct and would be without all this restoration work by these valliant folks.

JDK: You’re Kidding right? 4 is over there in England? Wow, that’s made me very happy, I’ve been working on a book myself, though not as exciting as yours, mine is about my Grandfathers exploits during WWII, and if 4 is there in one piece then it would make a nice addition to my book.

I have heard that another flying model is coming together down here, I’ll look into details and let you know more.

I look forward to seeing those pics, and Mark12, thanks for those they really inspire me.

Mark V

I received these photos in 1972 from Hockey Treloar. It was at the time when he was in negotiation to do what I believe was a direct swap for Spitfire TE384 with the embryonic RAFMus. So pre 1972 for the air to air sortie is as near as I can get it.

Mark

Originally posted by Mark V
Mark, would these photos have been taken around 1969ish?

if they were that would account for why I’ve never seen one flying as I was stationed in Germany then and also couldn’t afford a car so I was not going to airshows

Mark, would these photos have been taken around 1969ish?

JDK,

Include me in the few. 😉

Mark

PS – In trying to resize one of the images the system played up. Hence the downstream re-post.

The RAF Museum Seagull.

I am not so sure who got the better deal! 😉

Mark

Credit photos: Neville Parnell via Hockey Treloar

W2718 certainly had the Supermarine gun mounts. You can see the flattened out item in my ‘pile of bits’ photo above!

And another point raised at the start – As far as I know, the armament ‘fit’ on all Walri / Seagulls was the same – 3 recesses on each lower wing for two bomb racks (RAF standard type) and a box space for a small bomb container. The fore and aft hatches had special Supermarine mounts for guns, normally a Vickers K, or VGO, sometimes a twin mount avaliable in the aft cockpit. The prototype actually had scarff rings, but that changed for the production machines. If anyne knows different, I’d love to hear from them!
Cheers

G’day folks,

Just going back to the original post – Ja Worsley’s Grandfather being rescued by A2-4 – you do realise that’s the RAF Museum’s immaculate example?

Immaculate, but inpenitrable – due to the excessive Health & Safety legislation, the cockpit is ‘out of bounds’ due to the radioactive paint on the instraments. Hem.

However we were able to get some piccies. Thanks for sharing the colour pics, of VH-ALB / A2-4, Mark XII; nice stuff! I’ll see if I can showcase a yellow beast tomorrow. I think I’m one of the few to have seen, touched and photoed all 4 survivors – I’ll post some pics soon.

I agree with Mark V’s comments – I’ve read and would also highly reccomend GWR Nicholl’s book to anyone interested; – great fun. I’ve not laid hands on Air Whaler yet, though it’s on the list. I’ll need the luck with the book – lots to do yet!

Cheers
James

Wow!!

First colour shots of a Walrus flying I have ever seen. Send them to Mr Melton so he knows what he is going to miss 😉 .

Thanks again.

Another view,

What have we here? 🙂

Many thanks, very interesting stuff.

Yak11fan, I hope the above posts answer your questions. I shall post a few more pictures over the next few days as time allows.

PS: all pictures were taken by me unless otherwise credited!

Dear JDK,

You sum it all up rather well. The Melton machine is very much a kit waiting to be finished. A staggering amount of work was put in during the early 1990’s, mainly (but by no means solely) by volunteers to produce the complete hull we now have. it would be a tragedy if it were not to be finished as an airworthy machine, that having always been the intention. There are many more original parts to be fitted and a complete set of Supermarine drawings was obtained to fabricate the missing ones such as the engine/oil tank pod. the largesttask ahead is the fabrication of the wings themselves but this is certainly not beyond the wit of man, the complex spars having been manufactured already

I hope the right buyer comes forward with the will and the wallet to finish the job.

you have probably already seen ‘The Supermarine Walrus’ by G W R Nicholl (Foulis 1966) and ‘Air Whaler’ by John Grierson (Sampson, Low Marston & Co 1949), both are essential reading.

Good luck with the book.

Hi, all, first post.
I’m currently writing a book on the Walrus and I’ve been researching the thing rather a lot recently!

There are two good books on the ASR work of the Walrus I’d recommend; both by Norman Franks. Another Kind of Courage (1994, now out of print) covers the UK ASR units, and just published is Above Courage, covering the Med ASR units. Both make amazing reading. I agree with Ross’ post, but each rescue was different, and they’d try and pick up who was in the water – this often resulting in a long taxi home on the water in whatever conditions as a take off with the overload was often not possible (and sometimes it was possible to land, to pick up, yet not to take off – what would you do if you saw a fellow airman in a dinghy?)

As regards the types – simple really, but often confused: The type was originally ordered by the Aussies to replace their Seagull III type.

Seagull V prototype – Hand built rather like the prototype Spit, and thus had a number of detail differences to the production machines.

Seagull V – 20 built, for the RAAF to use with the RAN. Differed to the Walrus by having Handley Page slats on the upper wings, and a removable jury strut on the inner end of the folding wing. Oh, the A2-xx serial was a clue too!

Walrus Mk.I – For the RN, later the RAF. The jury strut was fixed, no slats

Walrus Mk.II – Same as above with a wooden hull, designed by Saro. Saunders Roe took over production of the Walrus because Supermarine were busy with some fighter or other, can’t quite recall the name…

Seagulls – Before all this in the 20s, there was a I, II, and for the Aussies a III which was a II for down under! Apart from the layout, none looked like our Walrus. Just to complete the confusion Supermarines produced a Seagull (no other suffix, mark, clue given) after WW.II which looked like a cross between a Seafire 47 and a Walrus – go faster but overtaken by the helicopter for fleet ASR work. Oh, yes, the Sea Otter (different, looked the same, tractor rather than pusher) came in between.

There are four survivors – a Walrus in the FAA Museum Yeovilton, ironically a Seagull V in the RAF Museum and a Walrus in the RAAF Museum, as well as Mr Melton’s machine. All four have fascinating histories.

As to D*ck Melton’s machine – it’s a complete ‘kit’ engine, wing parts (spars etc) but there’s a lot of work and time to be put in. Like Yak 11 Fan I’d love to see it fly – D*ck says he’s getting too old to finish it, though the work so far is as good as you’d expect. He’s looking for a sensible offer from an interested party… Of the 4 survivors, it’s the only potential flyer – anyone for a Walrus club?

Hope this helps!

James

Any idea what is left to be done to the Walrus? I guess a full systems installation, but is there much more to be done? It would make a good project for somebody to finish off, not me though as I have no money, can’t fly and can’t float. It would be interesting to see it out and about.