Hello Gents;
Bless me Father, for it’s been way too long since my last post.
I’ve asked in the past for direction to websites that have lots of pics of Spitfire airframe bits, and then made the same request for the D model P-51. Responders were very helpful and I got to see a lot of decent airframe pieces.
However, can anyone point me to websites that feature BF-109’s in restoration mode? It’s the G model that piques my interest the most, based solely on looks, but any of the 109 models is of interest generally. The more internal stuff, the better, namely fuselage frames, longerons, wing spars, etc. You get the idea.
Someone had emailed me some pics of the spar of a 109, and I recall the attach point being very different from anything I’d ever seen. Was that Chumpy who showed me that? It’s been a while.
I’ll no doubt have a few questions about the 109 airframe, such as why is the main spar so far back from the L.E., etc., but for now, any good restoration sites for the BF-109?
Any sites that feature structural drawings would be helpful as well. I Googled, and found both a simple cutaway drawing (couldn’t glean much detail from it) and an actual cutaway airframe that was pretty good to see.
Thanks again guys, Tom Kay.
By: Tom Kay - 23rd December 2009 at 14:31
Guys;
Thanks a lot for the info and the pic. You gotta hand it to the Germans, they could design!
I hate to overstay my welcome, but if you happen to have a thousand more pics, feel free to beam them over. I love looking at other people’s airframes.
Cheers, Tom.
By: mackerel - 22nd December 2009 at 22:35
109 fuse
Chumpy’s photo shows just what I was getting at !!!
Steve
By: mackerel - 22nd December 2009 at 22:33
109 fuselage
Hi, the rear fuselage of a 109 is made up of skins with the frames formed on the skin its self. There are 4 such items on each side of the fuse spaced by a skin with no frame on. This is then riveted to the skins with frames on and the whole lot in joined down the centre,( top & bottom) by stringers. There are also stringers that go the full lenght of the fuse through slots cut in the frames .
Steve
By: chumpy - 22nd December 2009 at 22:21
Hi Tom,
Main advantage of the 109 was it’s simple construction, as QldSpitty points out the fuselage frames are made integeral with the actual skinning, these formed up panels joined by flat sheets.
The fuselage (from aft of the cockpit to where the fin bolts on), made in LH & RH halves, these joined top and bottom by a channel member.
Thus it is possible to make a large chunk of aeroplane in around 40 seperate pieces. Spitty will no doubt testfy to the fact that there are about 250-300 seperate bits in a similar lump of Spitfire!
Messerschmitt had production sussed in my opinion, had it been a commercial war we were fighting back in 1940..they would have won.
Heres one we made earlier etc!
Chumpy.
By: QldSpitty - 22nd December 2009 at 21:27
I would have thought this method would lose a fair percentage of strength, compared to one long seamless sheet of aluminum fuselage skin, but it obviously worked.
On the contrary,the skins are what as termed “stressed” where they are pulled (very)tight over a wooden,concrete,plastic forming buck then the ends are worked over to get the strengthening flanges or in a normal sense frames or bulkheads.The stringers are full length down the aircraft.Think there was a thread a few months ago showing the 109 manufacture process of the fuse sections..
By: Tom Kay - 22nd December 2009 at 15:35
Mondariz and Qld Spitty;
Thanks for the leads. The site at www.leichtbau-gmbh.de reminds me that my German isn’t as sharp as it could be, but I like pictures. Even more in some publications!
There’s a huge pile of stuff to wander through in the Wikipedia site, especially the “109 Lair.” Good link !
Pretty soon I’ll have to start my round of silly questions, oh wait, now’s perfect. Here goes:
1. I see that the fuselage skin from cockpit to tail, is actually made up of sections, from one fuse frame to the next. Is this done to make compound curves more easily? I mean, unlike the P-51, is a simple flat-wrap on the rear fuselage of the BF-109 impossible, based on tapered shape and curvature?
I would have thought this method would lose a fair percentage of strength, compared to one long seamless sheet of aluminum fuselage skin, but it obviously worked.
Tom.
By: Mondariz - 21st December 2009 at 05:03
Hi Tom,
Just a little”trick” to you and everyone else looking for something in particular.
www.wikipedia.com is a very good place to start your search. It has quite an extended selection of aircraft, but it also has links to external information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me-109#External_links and even footnotes and citations, that sometimes links to web pages (although often it refers to books).
Those places would normally have even more links (it’s not called the WEB for nothing).
By: QldSpitty - 21st December 2009 at 01:38
For some good restoration pics..
http://www.leichtbau-gmbh.de/formenbau.htm
By: Tom Kay - 19th December 2009 at 02:59
Hi Guys;
Thanks for all the replies. Of course, Google was my first approach, but I have found things don’t always show up on Google. So that’s why I was hoping someone might have bookmarked a site or two. One that I did find, is the rebuild of Red 7, but the pictures are so small, they’re cute but not useful.
Chumpy, thanks for the pic. I was surprised to see how in the middle the spar appears to be. Yes, by the way, the Spitfire is out. A Titan T-51 looks about right for a Spring Chicken like me, but the price tag’s high. And I’m still waiting to see how the FWF package survives, after one in-flight crankshaft breakage. Aside from a few cosmetic compromises, I like the T-51, and have been studying it for fun.
Then, as I was innocently surfing, I just happened upon some BF-109 Youtube clips, and God, she looks like a mean, purpose-built beast. So that’s why I want to get a bit cosier with how the airframe looks. I also love that whistle from the variable charger.
Shorty01, thanks for the prints link. I can’t recall the last time I felt rich. I guess that begs the question; “what the hell makes you think you can afford anything more than a balsa model?” Answer, call me a dreamer. At least that part’s realistic !
BrewerJerry, now that looks like an outstanding place to start snooping. I will register right away and get reading.
Thanks again all.
Cheers, Tom, (wanna-be tail dragger).
By: brewerjerry - 19th December 2009 at 01:27
If you are feeling rich you could try this…
Hi
Save your money..
Link sent via pm of ( note) different, but more probably more useful files.
cheers
Jerry
By: Shorty01 - 18th December 2009 at 23:21
If you are feeling rich you could try this…
By: Creaking Door - 17th December 2009 at 23:58
…why is the main spar so far back from the L.E.?
So there is room for the wheel-well in front of the spar?
By: chumpy - 17th December 2009 at 23:52
Hi Tom,…It might well of been me who sent you pix of the 109 wing spar, long time ago it seems. I trust that you have given up on the dreaded spit wing spar??!!!
The attached shot shows the wing structure from a 109e, the wing on the F / G s etc series similar in format. However a lot of detail differences, also shorter in span.
Chumpy.
By: Creaking Door - 17th December 2009 at 20:38
Try typing ‘109G’ into this:
Only about 100,000 images I’m afraid but some may be of use! 🙂
By: trumper - 17th December 2009 at 20:14
🙂 I think they had them in Duxfords shop ,
http://www.haynes.co.uk/Press/Releases_HTML/091005_Bf109PR_haynes_press_release.htm
By: AdlerTag - 17th December 2009 at 19:42
Hi Tom,
You might be interested to know that Haynes have just published a manual on the 109, along the same lines as the Spit, Lanc and Tiger Moth manuals they’ve done in the past. Should have plenty of the kind of detail you’re after.
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December 17, 2009 at 7:29 pm