Wanted Ideas For Replica Build…

Phillip, I would suggest something wooden – a million times easier.

Also, Anneorac’s idea is a worthing considering very carefully.

The lack of a Lynx should not be a problem as one could substitute a bare Cheetah and there are quite a few around. An awful lot of folks couldn’t tell a Cheetah from a Lynx and they are the same physical size. So you could do a Lincock.

John

Building any aeroplane is going to be expensive. Even if you spread the cost over several years, it isn’t going to be cheap. Unless I can pull myself out of debt and make some serious money, this and any other [mad-capped] project will remain just a pipe-dream, albeit one worth pursuing – even if any research undertaken can help someone else make things happen

Phillip,

Why am I not surprised to read the above……

Cheers

Cees

Fantastic idea to keep yourself occupied over the coming years Phillip and I wish you luck. I can see your thinking as well re the outlay spread over a number of years keeps the initial investment low.

I would think long and hard about where you are going to put it once its completed. Many museums are short of undercover hangerage and high on airframes. Would a museum really let a replica go indoors over a real aircraft that they own? Not saying that they wouldnt but something to mull over.

Why is the lack of an engine putting you of completing a courier? If the aircraft is to be static like you suggest there is no need to look for an original engine. Replicate one yourself.

The R/C Scale modellers have to replicate Radial engines & various types of cylinder heads all from plastic card, timber and numerous other materials painted upto look scale. There should be no reason why you couldnt do that but on a larger scale.

If you PM me I will photocopy some stuff and post to you to show you some ideas. Drop me a PM.

Regards Martin

Personally Id be thinking Westland Whirlwind…………………but that doesnt fir your criteria. 😀

That’s also 2 votes for the Airspeed Courier, RPSmith and myself. Even Phillip Rhodes thinks it’s a good choice. There was also an original 504N, but the Shuttleworth Collection decided to rebuild it as a 504K

I do like the Courier, but I understand there are no plans and the engine is rare – no engine – no build. The Stuttleworth Collection’s Avro 504K started out as a model “K” before being converted into a model “N”, before being converted back to a model “K” in the 1950s. You are right, there is an original Model “N” in a Danish museum?

Well that’s two votes for a Spit (Qld and me) so….what are you waiting for??:):)

That’s also 2 votes for the Airspeed Courier, RPSmith and myself. Even Phillip Rhodes thinks it’s a good choice. There was also an original 504N, but the Shuttleworth Collection decided to rebuild it as a 504K

Ok Phillip,

Now you have a lot of options, have you got an idea already?

Cheers

Cees

Firstly, many thanks for all your suggestions. I’ve drawn up a list of three aircraft, which no doubt will change in the coming months.

Miles M1 Satyr

Although Frederick George Miles and his brother built a biplane before the Satyr it didn’t (or wouldn’t) fly. Therefore the Miles Satyr was the first aircraft wholly designed by F G Miles that flew – the first of many designs. Is there another replica M1 either being constructed or in the planning stage?

The size of the aircraft is appealing, though being a single seater, joyrides are out of the question. The main problem is the lack of an original engine. The Pobjoy R (75hp) was fitted to a limited number of aircraft, and finding an original will prove difficult and costly. Any suggestions for an alternative? Are the plans available? Don’t get me wrong, the aircraft appears to be a good subject for a replica-build, it simply doesn’t, you know…

Avro 504N

The Avro 405N is an interesting candidate. Built in large numbers, the aircraft superseded the model “K” in the 1920s. The availability of a Lynx engine is problematic, while there are several replicas being built, either in the UK or USA. I understand that one of these aircraft will be a model “N”. This aircraft appeals to me greatly and I do think a replica would fill a gap here in the UK. But, can anyone suggest an alternative to the Rotec R2800 (excluding the nine cylinder R3600)?

Westland-Hill Pterodactyl MkIV

Out of all the designs that I’ve looked at, the most enigmatic is the Westland-Hill Pterodactyl MkIV. Although slightly large and extremely complex, this aircraft is phenomenally a head-turner. The aircraft (44ft wingspan) was powered by a DH Gipsy III engine, which shouldn’t be a problem to acquire or substitute, but what about the plans?

“The main feature, however, was a gear by which it was possible to sweep the wings backward and forward through an angular range of 4.75°. This operation, which enabled the machine to be trimmed when the centre of gravity was varied by alternative loadings, could be effected by the pilot while in flight.

“The gear itself was in the nature of a large turnbuckle, connecting the front spars of the wings at their root, the rear spar roots being hinged by a ball joint and the bottom of the main Vee lift struts being similarly pivoted.” This feature would be difficult to replicate.

The only redeeming features that make this aircraft a good candidate for a replica-build is that it is a monoplane, with a short fuselage and no tailplane. On the other hand, the striking wing would be a nightmare to replicate, as no two ribs are the same. That said, I can see no other aircraft that would receive as much attention from either the public or fellow anoraks as this prehistoric beast.

Thing is, what will take me years to accomplish, AJD Engineering can achieve in twelve months, and for the same price. That leads me to the cost.

Building any aeroplane is going to be expensive. Even if you spread the cost over several years, it isn’t going to be cheap. Unless I can pull myself out of debt and make some serious money, this and any other [mad-capped] project will remain just a pipe-dream, albeit one worth pursuing – even if any research undertaken can help someone else make things happen.

That said, I really don’t like putting my neck on the line, even though it has become an occupational hazard or recurring trait. Making pretentious statements, like the one that started this thread only highlights ones own inadequacies and misgivings, which others usually point out. On the other hand, someone once said that a journey of a 1000 miles begins with a single step. One such journey involved a man from York, who 30 odd years ago started his dream with a £10 (?) purchase. One of my heroes is Tony Agar. I forget when, but he purchased the cockpit section of a DH Mosquito at an auction in Blackpool. Whereas most would be content with just owning the cockpit, Mr Agar didn’t stop there. He added a rear fuselage, wings and engines, resulting in the restoration and resurrection of a classic.

With hard work and some good fortune, we can all make a difference or at least gain enjoyment from doing something different (but not train-spotting or pressing wild-flowers!). That said, I have a lot on my plate, most of which I won’t dwell on here. Thing is, last January I started www.avprints.co.uk, which marketed a series of P51D prints. Six months down the line and I’ve only sold four sets – not enough to live on – when my subsidised wages end in July. The problem wasn’t the prints, but rather my inability of market my wares. Accordingly, my confidence has taken a real battering and I need a victory to make life bearable. So I fight on, because I love aeroplanes and I believe…

The research continues…

Phil Rhodes

Well that’s two votes for a Spit (Qld and me) so….what are you waiting for??:):)

Ok Phillip,

Now you have a lot of options, have you got an idea already?

Cheers

Cees

Does anyone know what paint scheme/s were employed?

If Peter Amos doesn’t know, no-one will! PM me if you would like contact details for him.

The Satyr – beauty in a ‘pint pot’ – as the attached image shows!

Does anyone know what paint scheme/s were employed?

Also, did you know that Satyr means:

(a) In Greek mythology, a wood-dwelling creature with the head and body of a man and the ears, horns, and legs of a goat, (b) a man who displays inappropriate or excessive sexual behaviour or (c) a brown or grey butterfly with spotted wings.

My Idea

I know it’s twin engined and it has a metal fuselage, but what about the Cunliffe-Owen Concordia? Beautiful aeroplane, why no-one’s thought of replicating it is beyond me as there is a fairly easy engine availability, (Alvis Leonides). Failing that, I’d go for the Airspeed Courier.

Phil,
I applaude your enthusiasm and drive, and hope you´ll get around to building your replica. Here are some of my thoughts on the subject.

If at all possible, try and stay away from playwood covered aircraft. They can possibly have very complicated compound curves that are very difficult to make in plywood. Some of the compound curves seen on my Gemini are out of this world, so to speak, but fourtunately it looks like I´ll be able to use the old once in most cases, so will not have to make new ones:) If I had to, it would be a nightmare:eek:

Secondly, try to set your sights on an aircraft with known drawings. Having to make the drawings as you go, as well as to build the aircraft will be a huge amount of extra work, and in the end, you might not end up with an accurate outline of the aircraft you wanted to build. Quite a few have made that mistake, but I´ll not be mentioning any specifics:diablo: An Avro 504 will be a bit difficult, as no fuselage drawings are known to exist, only wings and MOST of the metal. If you get a good connection at someone like Skysport, you might be able to get the rest, but do not hold your breath.

With regards to engines, if you are making a non-flying replica anyway, the engine should not stop you making what ever aircraft that takes your fancy. If you do not have the correct engine, you will just build a replica engine out of what ever there is, but one that LOOKS correct. Most people will never know the difference between a good replica engine an the real one.

Just my thoughts.

How about an Arrow Active, quite small, only two built, one of which caught fire on Alex Henshaw who had to leave it quickly via parachute. Lots of metal work though.

Another idea is the Hordern-Richmond Autoplane. A small twin co-designed by Freddie Richmond, grandfather to the current Lord March of Goodwood fame. You may even get free entry to the Goodwood revival & they may let you keep it on the airfield.

.
Miles Satyr[/B] remind me again…

The Satyr – beauty in a ‘pint pot’ – as the attached image shows!

This is a ‘missed’ opportunity
try CIERVA AIR HORSE. You would be welcomed at Weston Super Mare

If you fancy something easier to built, but still capturing the right atmosphere, take a look here: http://www.airdromeairplanes.com

The Baslee replica Nieuports that were built for Flyboys, looked the business!

Just a thought.

Have you considered lowering your sights slightly and just making a small(ish) part, like the rudder, of what ever aircraft takes your fancy? That way you can test out your wood, metal, fabric, doping and painting skills on an item that is manageable in terms of budget and time. If by making this component you then decide that the rest of the aircraft is out of your budget or skill level you’ll still have a nice object to hang on your wall.

As I say…just a thought…maybe not a good one.

Anne

Go on…make a Grebe. No more complex and a lot smaller than an Avro 504N.

Excellent idea Anne. As for the Grebe, do you have a spare engine going spare? 😀

Just a thought.

Have you considered lowering your sights slightly and just making a small(ish) part, like the rudder, of what ever aircraft takes your fancy? That way you can test out your wood, metal, fabric, doping and painting skills on an item that is manageable in terms of budget and time. If by making this component you then decide that the rest of the aircraft is out of your budget or skill level you’ll still have a nice object to hang on your wall.

As I say…just a thought…maybe not a good one.

Anne

Go on…make a Grebe. No more complex and a lot smaller than an Avro 504N.

Sopwith Gnu? 3 Seater, 200hp BR2 engine, granted it is a little complex…..