Warbird helicopters – where are they?

but was stripped after that to provide the aft pylon etc, see link in my other post 🙂

AE-520 was taken to the Fleetlands Facility, in the United Kingdom (UK) and placed into service as ZH257 where it was utilized as a trainer.

Just to clarify, it was placed into service as a ground trainer and not flown in the UK.

Thanks, Tony.

Argentine chinook

AE-520 was an Argentine Army helicopter and was captured by the British forces on 14 June 1982. AE-520 was taken to the Fleetlands Facility, in the United Kingdom (UK) and placed into service as ZH257 where it was utilized as a trainer. Fleetlands is a Royal Navy aircraft overhaul facility in Gosport, U.K., located on the English channel near Portsmouth. AE-520 accumulated at least 268.0 aircraft hours while in service to the Argentina Army. ZH257 was not cycled through the HC-2 or HC-3 mid-life update programs and remained a CH-47 Model 309 helicopter (basically a C model) until an accident occurred with ZA704. After an accident in which ZA704s aft pylon was severely damaged, ZH-257’s (AE-520) aft pylon was cannibalized, upgraded to HC Mk II standards, and placed on ZA704. All remaining serviceable mechanical items common to RAF Chinooks were removed from ZH257. As of early 2010, the remnants of ZH257 lay at RAF Odiham serving as a Battle Damage Repair training device.

from http://www.chinook-helicopter.com/history/aircraft/argentina/argentina.html

It was stored at Fleetlands and then the fuselage i think was used to rebuild a crashed one of ours. the Puma entered RAF service eventually….

Here is the chinook, with a slightly modified title :p

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Argentina—Army/Boeing-Vertol-CH-47C/0864107/&sid=f269ad4da0ae96184838feed95d59403

This is the Chinook it donated parts too

http://www.chinook-helicopter.com/chinook/aft_pylon_removal.html

Fascinating story, got to admire people like that!
What became of the Chinook?

There’s an ex Argie G Wagon in the FAAM store, I wonder if it was the 2nd one you mentioned!

G-HUEY was ex-Argentine army (AE-413) and captured at Stanley and used as a supply chopper by the garrison then shipped back as a trophy. I’m personally not familiar with its history in the UK, so I’d be eager to hear more as much as Tony.

It was used during the Conflict and at cease war, he tried to hand it over to the different forces, but lacking paperwork they all declined as peacetime constraints grounded it, he if memory serves me correctly flew it out onto the deck of one of the UK ships heading back to Portsmouth and asked them to deliver it back to the UK, they did, in the mean time he was posted back to Odious on a course…. several weeks went by when he recieved a call from the Royal Navy saying this Helicopter had arrived and what did he want doing with it, calling their bluff he requested could they deliver it, nooooo problems, first thing RAF Odious really knew about it was when an Royal Navy low loader turfed up at the main gate with an Argentinian Helicopter on the back, deemed he could not keep his souvenir it was decided to get it airworthy and use at shows, enroute to one he clipped a bridge i think, damaged they wrote to every operator of them bar one (guess which) begging parts, they eventually had to buy one part that was about $80? to get it back in the air, things changed and as relations with Argentina were improving they then sold it to the Benevolent Fund for £1 who operated it for a while, even staring in a J Bond movie.

You would be suprised what came back, the captured Chinook arrived and when the ramp was dropped a errrm Merc G Wagon ( or 2) was found, 18 used it in Germany, it had a bullet hole in it, but was new with no miles on it, I seem to remember there was an issue when getting parts from Mercedes as when they gave the chassis number Mercedes wanted it back because it hadn’t been paid for, they were told to politely take it up with Argentina.. As for the Chinook it was found I think Servicable but with spongy controls, when they got back with engineers the Army had been round souvenir hunting…. so it came back in a boat, the rotor blades were used as a loading ramp!!!!!!!! G- Wagon is in a corner at Cosford, lurking near the Pucara, and is often missed.

I better not mention some of the other items, and no not talking weapons…. 🙂

The main point with Helicopters as someone has already stated is maintenance costs.

Unlike a fixed wing aircraft that you service and overhaul parts you then refit and carry on flying.With Helicopters in the majority of components they have a set life expectancy once that is reached in terms of flying hours time period since first installed etc they are then removed AND THROWN AWAY not permitted to be refitted. Mike E

You can overhaul wooden blades for Bell 47s, but not the metal ones.

You’re correct about parts and prices. But it’s not just a problem for rare helicopters. Heres a news release from the firm that now owns the Bell 47 type certificate.

LE SUEUR, MINNESOTA (August 23, 2011) Scott’s – Bell 47, Inc. (SB47), OEM for the Model 47 helicopter, today announced a reduction of their Main Rotor Blade spares pricing to $45,000 per blade, -13 & -21, and $45,500 for the -23. This reduction is driven by the customer survey responses received over the past 6 months and is afforded by their re-sourcing efforts to establish a new blade manufacturer.

That’s right, a set of new blades for the Bell is $90,000 (60,000 pounds)..and you can buy complete airworthy ships about about the same price. But Lord help you if you reach TBO or damage a blade.

Now you see why I’ve spent money on vintage cars rather than owning a Bell 47. 🙂

you know the story of this and how it got here?

A quick note:

There are actually 2 flying UH-1s kicking about the UK, atm. G-UHIH is ex-US army and a Vietnam veteran was purchased from surplus depot in Seattle about 8 years ago.

G-HUEY was ex-Argentine army (AE-413) and captured at Stanley and used as a supply chopper by the garrison then shipped back as a trophy. I’m personally not familiar with its history in the UK, so I’d be eager to hear more as much as Tony.

you know the story of this and how it got here?

Oh Yes! I arrived at odius prior to its first flight. Remember all the procrastinations about waste of time, don’t bother, it’ll never fly! Heard it all before just a few short years earlier when I helped rebuild a certain Piston Provost that eventually joined the airshow circuit, albeit under civilian finance. At least G-HUEY had corporate sponsorship for a while. I believe the man behind the original idea is still involved with another Huey?

Pagen01,

This is a snippet of info on the Sycamore, not really fresh but I assume they are still working on it.

http://www.flyingbulls.com/#/en/Terminal/Latest-News/-/Bristol-Sycamore/

The best warbird helicopter for my money that really did its work in Malaya etc in conflicts was the Belvedere a few of those exist now that would be a machine to put in the air its almost like our 1950’s60’s equivalent of a Chinook without the glass cockpit.

Mike E

Pagen01,

This is a snippet of info on the Sycamore, not really fresh but I assume they are still working on it.

http://www.flyingbulls.com/#/en/Terminal/Latest-News/-/Bristol-Sycamore/

The Skeeter strikes me as one of those little designs that would make a good personal helicopter if it could be re-engined with a small gas turbine (Bo.105 type say) and new drive sytems and rotors.

Thanks Stony

the main problem initialy was with the rotor construction but then gearbox and dirve problems started to occur. If you want a personal helicopter about that size at the risk of being accused of useing bad language then you are talking of something like dare I say the word Robinson (I dont mean the fruit cordial either).

Mike E

www.whirlwindfighterproject.org

The Skeeter strikes me as one of those little designs that would make a good personal helicopter if it could be re-engined with a small gas turbine (Bo.105 type say) and new drive sytems and rotors.

Thanks Stony

The main point with Helicopters as someone has already stated is maintenance costs.

Unlike a fixed wing aircraft that you service and overhaul parts you then refit and carry on flying.With Helicopters in the majority of components they have a set life expectancy once that is reached in terms of flying hours time period since first installed etc they are then removed AND THROWN AWAY not permitted to be refitted.As you can imagine if you have a very common type with a big spare pool to draw on its not a problem but when you are down to perhaps less than 20 of the breed in existence and no big pool of parts what parts are available get used up fairly quickly.

This is the issue with some of the helicopters currently grounded because of rotor blade or drive/gearbox issues the original manufacturers for the main have moved on to umpteen models down the line and to produce one off sets of parts for a few surviving airframes is not cost effective and its not as if you can just get hold of some drawings and get your local machine shop to knock up the bits.Not only do the materials etc have to be to spec and approved with paperwork but the engineering shop manufacturing has to be approved and then so does the engineer signing it off as fit and then the poor sod fitting it has to then put his name to it and before long it gets so bogged down with documentation is it all worth doing or cost effective.

That I suggest is why you don’t see so many rare and interesting war bird helicopters in the air sadly that is why I had to get rid of my Skeeter G-BDNS many moons ago because even then (in the late 1970′ early80’s) parts where becoming a begger to get and my friend who owned G-APOI and two other ex military airframes could not get the parts he needed to put his machines back into the air and they sat for many years in sheds stuck for parts and are now thankfully in safe keeping in collections sadly static.

I hope this helps towards the explanation I dont say its the only reason but one of the main ones.

Mike E

That’s great news, I assume it’s the one that flew in recent times in Switzerland?

I believe it is that one.

Red Bull is also restoring a Sycamore to airworthy condition.

That’s great news, I assume it’s the one that flew in recent times in Switzerland?

Helicopter maintenance is very expensive and time consuming. G-HUEY the ex-Falklands chopper was, I believe, a case in point.

you know the story of this and how it got here?

This one is certainly a warbird…
Red Bull is also restoring a Sycamore to airworthy condition.

Warbird helicopters have proved to be very popular in South Africa with over 20 examples of the Alouette II on the Non-type certified register – most of them being ex-French Army. Sadly though few still fly in their former military markings. A number of ex-SAAF Alouette IIIs have also appeared on the register as well as a few Hueys.

I wouldn’t really class these as ‘warbird helicopters’, more a source of getting a cheap means of rotary-winged transport. In the UK there are quite a few ex-military Gazelles flying on the civil reg, in the US many government agencies, fire dep’ts etc fly ex-mil Hueys.

There’s a very nice Piasecki ‘Flying Banana’ operated by an organisation in Southern Califonia that appears at occasional events, sadly their HUP-1 was lost in a fatal wirestrike accident 2 years ago.