Warbirds Had Their Best Days???

Originally posted by Janie
Who cares whether yesteryear was better than this year, because this year was fantastic.

here here

Originally posted by Yak 11 Fan
My feeling is that Warbids have had their best days in terms of variety. I can see the future being made up of a number of smaller collectors such as Rob Davies, Peter Teichman, Maurice Hammond etc having a much smaller number of machines than the likes of TFC etc and flying them mainly for pure enjoyment as well as shows

Don’t you know any others :p hehehe

Well put Warbird UK. The ‘boys-own’ idillic views on this whole subject have no place in the future of not only display flying but the operation of vintage aeroplanes altogether.

Utter claptrap not to mention libelous (if you had named one of them)

Only libellous if un-true! Where do you get your expert opinion from? I can’t believe how many of you out there have your heads in the ground, wake up & smell the coffee! Look at the video of some of these accidents, How many have been put down to mechanical defects? Ask some of the people who know about flying & aircraft characteristics, or is it that some of you just want to be controversial for the sake of it? There are pilots out there who do display themseves rather than displaying the aircraft & can you tell me, hand on heart, that you have never seen a aircraft running out of speed during a display sequence or wobble around in a formation, or not take into account the air temperature on a hot day? Or finish a manoeuvre a bit lower than it should be? I’ve been around airshow aircraft quite a long time & have seen some really stunning flying in less than perfect conditions & have also seen some appalling flying. Anyone who has been to a few air shows will have seen what I’m talking about even if they didn’t recognise it at the time, So please don’t expect me to agree that everyone flying at air shows are purely displaying the aircraft, most are, most of the time, but everyone has their off days.
Someone once said, There are Bold pilots, there are Old pilots, but very few Old Bold pilots! 😉

Originally posted by Janie
Oh no dhf! I had arranged for an F-15 to do a private display next March for your 52nd birthday celebrations. Not to worry. I’ll cancel it. 😀 😀

Fine.

Now if it was the Sea Vixen…

I used to see A10s a lot when my parents had a static caravan on the old Leiston airfield. Can’t say I’ve missed them.

Originally posted by dhfan
I’ve seen enough F-15/16s to last me a lifetime.

Oh no dhf! I had arranged for an F-15 to do a private display next March for your 52nd birthday celebrations. Not to worry. I’ll cancel it. 😀 😀

Originally posted by dhfan

I’ve seen enough F-15/16s to last me a lifetime. Bringing them in would help drive me away.

Interesting you say that, I used to feel the same way about A10’s F111’s etc, now you rarely get to see them.

Earlier in the summer I was hard at work at my local airfield with the aircraft parked out on the grass having just come back from a trip when 2 A10’s passed overhead for some celebration at Mildenhall, whether they spotted us or not I don’t know (I suspect they did) but we were treated to 15mins of watching 2 A10’s wheeling around the sky (at a safe height) whilst they waited for their turn to join the formation. It was a fantastic sight and great to see.

I guess what I am trying to say is we should not get too complacent and should enjoy what we have. Also we should be grateful for the likes of TFC, WoGB, OFMC, ARCO, private owners etc for the opportunity to have seen the wide variety of types we have seen over the years as well as the engineers who have spent countless hours restoring and maintaining all the aircraft we have been able to see over the years.

I’ve enjoyed it all ad hope very much to be able to continue to enjoy it for years to come.

in the current scene its the pilots who are displaying, not the aircraft.

Utter claptrap not to mention libelous (if you had named one of them)

I have spent many hours chatting to airshow pilots over the years, their first concern has always been safety, then the aircraft, then a good display then themselves.

The one that worries me the most was the US F-15 display pilot. Only cared about looking good for the ladies.

Am La.9 flew at Duxford last weekend, where else can you see that? And you think the hayday is over, you’ve never had it so good.

I suspect the heyday has passed, unfortunately. With spiralling costs it does make you wonder how long the owners can keep going.
I’ve seen enough F-15/16s to last me a lifetime. Bringing them in would help drive me away.
I’ve only been to 2 airshows this year, Coventry and Legends. It was great to be interested in everything that was flying, rather than ignoring half the display.
For the last 15 years its been mainly Finningley/Waddington for me. I’m not sure yet whether I’m going to bother again.
I enjoyed the Bruntingthorpe Big Thunder a few years back but they lost money on it so didn’t do it again. My previous Duxford show was probably 84/85, Old Warden 86 and at North Weald I saw the Kingcobra which crashed a few days later. Don’t know what year that was but late 80s again I suspect.
I’m going to be more selective in future and go to see more old and less modern displays while I can.

i think

we should be positive theres many projects to come through and maybe mossie may fly here again if caa lost its inhibitions we could see rare aircraft making it to fly its great to see many spits or p51s but as duxfords autumn airshow showed the biggest attraction was la9 and brietling team the scene needs to pick up a bit and maybe it will soon,just wish we didnt lose rare things like firefly p38,p63,mossie etc and there crews .

Warbirds may well have had their best days, for the time being at least!

When I first went to a display at Duxford in 1983, I was more than happy to just see Sally B, a Harvard, Varsity and an Auster AOP 9 display!

The airshow circuit does not need 6 Mustangs and 10 Spitfires and alike, it needs variety and quality pilots. Shows like Great Warbirds and the Fighter Meet did not have the numbers of aircraft that Legends has. These inovative displays had themes and set peices which kept the enthusiasts and joe public both happy.

Surely it is time for the display organisers to shake things up, and look for some fresh ideas. They cant keep on relying on a new display aircraft or 6 Mustangs and 10 Spits etc.. turning up to keep people happy. Shows need to evolve just as the Classic Fighter Display which was organised by both OFMC and TFC became the Flying Legends Display. We should not be served up the same shows year in year out.

I have attended airshows since the mid 70’s but on a regular basis since 1983. It is all is too easy to become jaded by seing the same aircraft perform the same display at shows throughout the country. Its not a numbers game its all about quality and variety.

I disagree with Warbird Uk on the point relating to aircraft display or pilot display, as an enthusiast Its always great to see an aircraft being well flown. Ray Hanna and John Lewis in Spits comes to mind. I have seen many poor Warbird displays over the years (mostly owner/ drivers) and I have also seen many so called boring aircaft types displayed with great style. It is a combination of the two that matters most.

The Warbird scene may well be smaller than it was 10 years ago but its still massive compared to 20 years ago. Who knows what the next 20 years will hold for the warbird enthusiast.

Ashley, black6
The people of Hartford, Cambs. didn’t complain about lowflying or noise until Canberra XH137 crashed into their village on the 3 May 1977 killing 3 children in their bathroom, and it wasn’t even an air display, he was coming in to land just like the Blenheim.

warbirduk sums it up, in the current scene its the pilots who are displaying, not the aircraft.

b25

is Grumpy going to fly in near future?

Pardon me for breaking up the overwhelming misery that is being written here, but I am still having bushels of fun.

I love every Rotax, Merlin and Goblin that wails past. I love watching the undercarriages come up and the wings fold down. I love watching the Beaufighter, Sea Fury, Gladiator and Mustang at TFC evolve. I love the camaraderie. I love seeing the same aeroplanes in the same colours do the same displays over and over again. I love the anticipation of wondering what will be new each year. I love the smells, the grease and the smiles on the pilots faces. I love the wonderment of the children as they call an L39 a Concorde or see a Harvard and call it a Spitfire. Who cares whether yesteryear was better than this year, because this year was fantastic.

I agree that the best years are long gone.

I believe a combination of regulations (with relation to rebuilding these aircraft in the UK at least) and the liability issues created when displaying them will eventually take its toll. Heaven forbid we have a major prang at an airshow which involves a big payout for an insurance company and the rates will go up again. The insurance company is not a warbird fan, they are in business and they will charge accordingly.

This is a major cost to the airshow organisers, who frankly I think are crazy (although I take my hat off to them). Think for a moment, in commercial terms, what they do. They pick a date a year in advance, book airshow performers who as long as they show up get paid. They then gamble on the British weather to see how many spectators show up!! Does anyone know what the different gate numbers are for say Duxford on a wet and miserable day compared to a warm and sunny one? I would be interested to know that. I don’t think anyone is making big money from airshows. I may be wrong.

Then is the significance of these fine aircraft being diluted with each generation that passes. Current owners perhaps had a father who flew them during the war but who will be the buyer of a £1m (or whatever it will be by then) Spit in 50 years time? These guys do not make money out of these aircraft, not even close. Hull insurance is typically 5% of the capital value. If you are lucky enough to own some of the serious tin then it is very much a case of “if you have to ask then you can’t afford it”. My point is that there won’t ever be any commercial operators of warbirds who are just in it for profit.

Another source of income for these aircraft, and the very reason some of them were (re)built in the first place, is the TV / Film world. We are already seeing computer generated aircraft which are good but not quite 100%. Well give it another 5 years and you won’t be able to tell the difference. The film company prefer it, they can have any plane they want in whatever qty they want, no pilots not doing what the director wants, no shoots held up for tech problems or weather and best of all, here it comes again, no health and safety or liability issues.

Plus I look along the crowd line at shows and I just don’t see many young people. I don’t mean the under 12’s who have been dragged along by Dad I mean the 18 to 30. So who will be the owners and who will be in the crowd in 30 years?

(I’ll post a poll, it might be interesting to see what the average age of the Forum is..)

Sure the Airforce will always be obligated to show the taxpayer what they get for their money so they will be displaying. But in 30 years will there even be maned fighting aircraft? Can’t imagine us all standing out in the cold watching a drone..

DOOM GLOOM DOOM GLOOM – all I need to do is talk the market on Spits down to about £20k and then I’m in!!!

🙂

I was thinking of moving house next to Old Trafford or Highbury and then complaining about all these people turning up on Saturday for some football thing;)
As far as have we had the best warbird years I think that the chance of large collections,as Yak11 fan said is looking unlikely for the future.
But is it us getting more complacent about the A/c we have? How many of us at a show say “Oh Ive see sally B(or other A/C) loads of times,and yet you would miss it greatly if it was sold tomorrow back to the U.S.

warbirds best years

i agree 94,96 were best but we had no La9 then the b25 at duxford was amazing

Black6…totally agree with your last gripe about people buying houses in/near Duxford and then moaning about the aircraft flying…living in the village myself, it never ceases to amaze me how these people complain so bitterly about aircraft noise, low flying etc, but come airshow days they all troop off up to the road running along the back of the airfield with their picnic hampers for an afternoon’s entertainment for free.

But with regards to the original topic of this thread…I can certainly see where you are coming from Droptank…my first airshow was Duxford, May 1996, and I can certainly think of several winged attendees which are no more or have been exported. I think there is certainly much less variety these days, as not only are rare aircraft lost, the numbers of certain aircraft on the circuit keeps growing (Spitfires and Mustangs are two that spring immediately to mind)…Looking back at old airshow programmes from the 1970s and 1980s, the number of aircraft appearing doesn’t often vary greatly from the numbers attending at shows today..but whereas say at the Duxford Airday 1974, 15 warbirds might have appeared but only one was a Spitfire, today the same number of warbirds might appear at a show at Duxford but four of these might be Spitfires – equalling less variety (as drool inducing as the sight of four Spitfires is to me :p)

Ashley

Re: Duxford – Our second home

Originally posted by black6
The fast, banking passes over the Superhanger, were indeed a sight to behold and worth the 400 mile round trip and entrance fee alone. On Sunday, the pilots seemed so consious of the ‘voices of discontent’ that the show could be described as ‘Tame’.

Apart from the B-25, then, whose display was quite superb. First time I’ve seen one being flown so energetically.

Duxford – Our second home

I attend almost every show at Duxford, in some capacity or other and I know that the forum has had a lot to say on the matter recently. Having been this Sunday, I must say that I am unsure about the future of this magnificent Warbird venue.

The fast, banking passes over the Superhanger, were indeed a sight to behold and worth the 400 mile round trip and entrance fee alone. On Sunday, the pilots seemed so consious of the ‘voices of discontent’ that the show could be described as ‘Tame’.

What do we have to do in order to return to fast, low passes and tail chases ? If this means that we can’t have Warbirds flying ‘aerobatic routines’ then I would be happy to accept that.

As a final GRIPE, I am disgusted at the way Duxford has been vilified recently. If I were to buy a house near Duxford, it would be because of the aircraft and history associated with the place. If they annoy you, buy a bloody house somewhere else. Surely they consider these facts before buying a place near to an operational airfield. Also, the large numbers of additional Press photographers since the tragic Firefly incident disgusts me and is a sad reflection on our society and the voyeuristic nature of our so called ‘entertainment’. Speaking to such a press bloke, he plainly stated that he was here for a crash, although in his defence he was not enjoying the assignment.