Warrington scrapyard treasure trove (70's) what's the story

41-35253

Hi all;

Even though I was involved with the Rebel Air Museum for more years than I care to remember, I’ve always wondered how the identity of our Marauder was established. It was just taken as read that it was 41-35253. This belonged to the 454th BS and was coded RJ-S. The regular pilot was Maj Darwin Curtis. We had a fair few photographs of this aircraft, some well known, others unpublished.

My question is, is how was the identity discovered at time? I asked David about this several times, but never got a really conclusive answer.

Hornchruch…

Sorry, I know your reply above is nearly two years old, but..

I think the plans that were in hand regarding the future of the tail section fell by the wayside. I’m not sure if there are any new plans, but it is still at Earls Colne. I really must speak to the current keeper and get some news!

The same could be said for the HUGE photograph collection. What we had on display was a mere fraction of what was held by the museum. Most of what we had was unpublished and it would be fantastic to see just a small part of the collection in print. Trouble is, is that now we no longer have Stan and Dave with us, captioning could be tricky. They just seemed to know every photo off the top of their heads! I don’t think a lot of them were recorded properly.

I really must try to find the time to investigate this. Trouble is, it’s been a fair few years since I was in touch with my old museum colleagues!

Regards;
Steve

Missed this thread first time round, but here’s my belated contribution.

In addition, there was the ball turret, lots of propeller blades and radials…

Later on, members of the Pennine museum also visited the yard & spoke of the now diminishing huge pile of scrap & crawling into the fuselage of one aircraft – they had several of the prop blades – looked pretty rough to me – steel & off P-47s IIRC. Also they had a Wright? radial engine that I seem to recall took some negotiating to secure – they thought it was B-17, but I think it was later identified as being from a tank? – it was rough! Finally they had some form of periscope sight, which again IIRC, came from the B-26.

The same group also attempted to excavate a quarry in the area that had reportedly been filled with scrap from Burtonwood & capped off – at the limit of the digger’s reach they hit corrugated iron & railway sleepers and faced with the cost of hiring the machine a further day to ramp it in, they gave up – later another witness told how sleepers had been used to cover the aircraft engines etc to stop them being dug up later – Its now a housing estate…..

Slightly off topic – but still in your ‘neck of the woods’ for us down south – are stories of many surplus US WW2 aircraft ending up buried at Warton – on the Wirral side I understand…

There are many rumours re buried scrap at Warton – from the ubiquitous crated Harley Davidson’s to crates of 20mm 😮 No doubt there is no smoke etc & I have spoken with many older locals who have outlined credible stories of what they saw buried – No complete aircraft though! Also seen some very interesting earthmoving going on in some late war aerial photos – BTW all on the Blackpool side of the estuary – there would have been no access or point to dumping anything on the other side. There was however an massive open-air store of material on the Southport side along the main A565, though this was all removed.

There was a Waco CG-4 fuselage on Warton’s perimeter till the early 1960s…

Also during talks with locals, the Hadrians dumped on the marsh side of the airfield have been mentioned several times – local lads used the wings to make rafts which they used on the river.

Whilst on the subject of scrapyards, does anyone remember the yard sale at a scrappy near Preston around the same time? It had been advertised in Flypast so there were a few folk there viewing the lots. There was a complete, inhibited Merlin 61 or 66 on a stand which went for, if I remember correctly, about £1,200…

Yes remember the sale, but couldn’t get leave from work to attend + I was broke (as usual at the time!) It was also reported in the local papers & the auctioneers were surprised at the interest – seem to recall the Merlin went for over £2000 which also caused a further article in the local press – I recall it as we were negotiating a dig locally & the landowner had attended the sale & wanted £1000 to let us dig, which he thought was fair, as the engine we were likely to find must be worth at least half what he had seen one sold for 😡

Earls Colne B-26 fuselage

Hi guys!

Was looking through some old photos of mine recently, and came across this photo, which I took I think, in 1985.

I had been looking for it before to help with an R/C scale build project of mine, but was nowhere to be seen. I found it purely by accident the other day with a bunch of other pics. I only took one photo, and wish I’d taken more now..

Here it is!

And for those who might be interested, a video of my build of Rivenhall based B-26B ‘Big Hairy Bird’

Hi Hornchurch

I was with the Rebel Air Museum for 15 years, and remember those very hot days in 1994…we probably met when you visited!!!

Regarding the B-26 fuselage. As far as I am aware, it is still in store at Earls Colne. It was never moved to Wakering (I know who this would refer to, and they wouldn’t have had the room to store it anyway!). There was talk that it would be displayed at the new visitors centre on the Marks Hall estate, but this didn’t seem to materialise either. I’m hoping to meet up with the current keeper soon, I’ll ask what the plans for it are and report back…

The fuselage was a cracking item, and was always regarded as our “star exhibit”. It would be really nice to see it on display somewhere soon. The question is, would it benefit from restoration, or leave it as it is. That’s a question we often pondered, and decided to leave it as it was.

Regards;
Steve

`

Hi Steve,

You guys certainly were friendly enough, for sure

Shame it didn’t stay open there, as I thought it was a unique location

I do remember going for an ice-cold pint at the Golf-club, & I abhor golf 😀

As a B.26 “nut” & a huge afficionado of Willingale & Matching-Green (& all things B.26 related !), I can honestly say that the only other fuselage section that I know of, that would’ve had me “foaming at the mouth”:diablo: would be the Stirling at Vraux:cool:

Can FULLY understand you guys regarding it as a “star-exibit”

Again, FULLY in agreement that it’s gotta remain “unrestored” & to be shown “as it is”, especially being so rare & unique

I’m “chomping at the bit” to see pix & hear you find out what’s happening, regarding it’s future ???????????

As & when you do, perhaps you can P.M. me, (that is), if ya don’t wanna open-up a new-thread on the subject ????????

It’s not the only major B.26 ‘exhibit’ for Marauder-nuts to “go down & out of sight” at the turn of this century…..

We lost a MASSIVE photo’ display/exhibition around the same time, at ‘Blake-Hall’… (just East of North-Weald & West of Ongar, on the A.414).

That had photo’s of MOST of the 387th‘s Willingale-based B.26’s, along with their crew’s names & respective “nose-art” (if & where so adorned).

Was a superb reference for 387th B.G./9th A.F. enthusiasts, as the display-boards that hosted the pictures not only contained the crew’s names & ‘nose-art’ (where applicable), but also the Sqdn codes (556th, 557th, 558th & 559th) along with the individual a/c code Letter (ident) & serial

Those pix belong in a comprehensive book (as a B.26 “nut”, I can honestly say that I’d never seen ANY of those pix published, in books, or, featured on the internet…..

Even when I spoke to Tony Holmes (Osprey) & bought my B.26’s of the Ninth
he was unaware of the collection & NONE of those pix were featured in the (then, new) Osprey book

Shame, as, like the B.26 fuselage-section we speak of, they deserve a wider-audience, esp’ of students & afficionados of the Ninth A.F.

BTW; great to see someone-else has got the ‘Tag’ for my ol’ ‘Easterly’ neighbouring B.of.B airfield :D:cool::cool::cool:

One ended up filling chicken sheds in North Wales and was eventually rescued by the museum at Burtonwood for an exhibition they had there about 5 years ago which, presumably, is still in store. The other still fills the cellars of a private location in North Manchester.

Anon.

So, were the chicken sheds completely cleared then? I visited the place in the nineties, and whilst very overgrown, there was a LOT of stuff still there. Most of it would have needed a JCB to uncover it from its resting place!

Who has the stuff in Manchester? Care to PM me details?

Bruce

Warrington

I remember well going to visit the Rebel Air Museum circa 1994 (on a blistering hot day !)

The rear fuselage section REALLY did look impressive

Easy to say with the benefit of hindsight, but I wish I’d’ve known it would be the first & last time I’d ever set eyes on it 🙁

Such a shame, as this ol’ relic really should be on show for everyone concerned with historic-aviation to see, enjoy & appreciate….

The last I heard, (after several folks had made inquiries), was that it is ‘stored’ by an enthusiast at Great Wakering (near Shoeburyness). :confused:

Like most other B.26 enthusiasts, I’d LOVE to see some pix

`

Hi Hornchurch

I was with the Rebel Air Museum for 15 years, and remember those very hot days in 1994…we probably met when you visited!!!

Regarding the B-26 fuselage. As far as I am aware, it is still in store at Earls Colne. It was never moved to Wakering (I know who this would refer to, and they wouldn’t have had the room to store it anyway!). There was talk that it would be displayed at the new visitors centre on the Marks Hall estate, but this didn’t seem to materialise either. I’m hoping to meet up with the current keeper soon, I’ll ask what the plans for it are and report back…

The fuselage was a cracking item, and was always regarded as our “star exhibit”. It would be really nice to see it on display somewhere soon. The question is, would it benefit from restoration, or leave it as it is. That’s a question we often pondered, and decided to leave it as it was.

Regards;
Steve

The Seafires were at the scapyard of Joseph Brierley and Son.

At confluence of the railway line, the bus garage and the football ground.

Mark

Hi all,

Noticed in the latest issue of fp that the only surviving B26 section in the UK (a rear fuselage) was found in a Warrington scrapyard

Any piccies would be nice, the rear fuselage of the Marauder looked impressive,

I thought that it was on show at the Rebel Air Museum but that is old news probably.

..Yes i believe it was on display at the Rebel Air Museum before it closed down, and is still in the vicinity.

I remember well going to visit the Rebel Air Museum circa 1994 (on a blistering hot day !)

The rear fuselage section REALLY did look impressive

Easy to say with the benefit of hindsight, but I wish I’d’ve known it would be the first & last time I’d ever set eyes on it 🙁

Such a shame, as this ol’ relic really should be on show for everyone concerned with historic-aviation to see, enjoy & appreciate….

The last I heard, (after several folks had made inquiries), was that it is ‘stored’ by an enthusiast at Great Wakering (near Shoeburyness). :confused:

Like most other B.26 enthusiasts, I’d LOVE to see some pix

`

Warringtom scrapyards

I had a poke around Howard’s yard in the early nineties and found one of the 0.50 cal handgrips complete still in its waxed cardboard box. Nearby was a bent P-47 prop blade, which I still have.

I didn’t see any B-17 tyres but was told by a local collector and B-17 enthusiast that they had been bought by a local go-karting rink and cut up for use as bumpers. He had recovered and restored a B-17 nose cheek gun panel and a top turret, which was subsequently used in the film Memphis Belle.

There were all sorts of wrecked airframe parts and what we worked out were beaching gear legs for flying boats.
The best stuff though had gone just a few short years before. I was told that there had been a mountain of ex-Burtonwood airframe spares there which included exhaust systems, prop blades and bosses and all manner of parts. I was shown a photo of said mound and it was certainly a treasure trove.
Apparently, the parts mountain was purchased as scrap and shipped off to Japan for sorting and recovery. There was a Jap ship moored in the ship canal and they were buying up everything they could get their hands on locally for shipment back as their industry was expanding and they needed metals. That’s the story I was told anyway.
I have some photos somewhere of the parts I saw, I will post them when I can find them.
I posted on a thread that was running a month or two ago regarding my Burtonwood Experience and the spares I found there. To repeat part of what I said then, the Yanks were just driving round with truck loads of this stuff after the war and after the base closed and just dumping it where they could. Yards were turning them away as they had no further room to spare.

The other yard, where the Spitfires/Seafires were found is/was nearer the centre of town near to the original Ikea roundabout. I went there 15-odd years ago and they had a Canberra there which was split open so I salvaged the control column and some panels. It had been one of the 15-odd that had been “sold” for £1 each from Samlesbury or Warton to interested parties and had ended up there. I have a serial number somewhere having found it in W&R last year. I have some photo’s of this a/c too, which I’ll try and find and post.

Whilst on the subject of scrapyards, does anyone remember the yard sale at a scrappy near Preston around the same time? It had been advertised in Flypast so there were a few folk there viewing the lots. There was a complete, inhibited Merlin 61 or 66 on a stand which went for, if I remember correctly, about £1,200.
I recall there being a heavy iron billet which had been used for pressing out British WW2 steel helmets but there wasn’t a great deal else of interest.

Overall, I got to all of these sites/yards just a little too late as all the best stuff had gone. I firmly believe though that there must still be some around as there had been so much of it disposed of from Burtonwood. I know of two caches of ex-Burtonwood engine and aircraft spares which were purchased privately. One ended up filling chicken sheds in North Wales and was eventually rescued by the museum at Burtonwood for an exhibition they had there about 5 years ago which, presumably, is still in store. The other still fills the cellars of a private location in North Manchester.

Anon.

Sorry Robbie, can’t help with stuff buried at Warton. Not heard that story, doubtful but always possible. There was a Waco CG-4 fuselage on Warton’s perimeter till the early 1960s. Never saw it though. A P-38J fuselage pod from Warton (42-67485) ended up in a scrapyard near Blackpool Airport and was there till the mid-1960s. I was offered it for £15 but that was a lot of cash in those days and I only had a Ford Anglia to remove it with! Nowhere to put it either, parents would have had a fit. I did manage to acquire a P-38 rudder off a mountain a few years later. This time it was a wife who was not pleased. That relic – the rudder not the wife – is now in the museum at Perch Rock. Sorry for going off-topic as usual …

forgot to mention that two B-17 tyres in excellent condition were acquired from Warrington and later used on Sally B. Or at least that is what I was told.

History may be getting confused here.

There were two serviceable looking B17 main tyres at the other yard. I had a conversation with “someone” (i.e. forgotten who) about them and they were subsequently obtained for the B17. There may well have been other informants down the line, too.

That’s a bit of the story I had completely forgotten about until you mentioned it!

Slightly off topic – but still in your ‘neck of the woods’ for us down south – are stories of many surplus US WW2 aircraft ending up buried at Warton – on the Wirral side I understand.

Can anyone substantiate these rumours? My scrapyard sorties were confined to Lasham in the early 70’s climbing over all manner of old aircraft but without a camera I’m afraid..

Maybe not suitable for restoration but preservation ‘as is’ could have happened. The WWIG Museum at Perch Rock would still have the B-17 nose now, had we been organised enough at that time to recover it! I forgot to mention that two B-17 tyres in excellent condition were acquired from Warrington and later used on Sally B. Or at least that is what I was told.

Amazing pics, thanks for posting. What a sight.

Pity about the scrapping but at the time this was considere unsuitable for restoration, how times have changed.

Cheers

Cees

This isn’t the picture I had in mind, but here’s the turret at Duxford in July 1978. Apologies for the indifferent quality – my trusty Spotmatic wasn’t so trusty that day as the meter calibration had gone out of adjustment, and I’ve just done a very quick scan with a minimum of tweaking.

I went to the B-17 yard with John Molyneux (still active with the Warplane Wreck Investigation Group) in the early 1970s and took these photos of the B-17 nose. They aren’t brilliant as it was a very gloomy day. The distinctive wing interior is visible above John’s head in one of them. He is pointing at the painted bomb mission symbols in another, although they are not visible on the photo. (Doh!) I think the B-26 rear fuselage shows up in these photos as well. It was partly buried in a huge pile of scrap and rather foolishly I crawled inside. With the blessing of the yard boss we carried off some small items, including waist gun firing grips. These are are at the Perch Rock Museum in New Brighton. I seem to recall the ball turret but didn’t photograph it for some reason. There was an enormous pile of scrap and heaven knows what was under there at that time.

The other photo I took at Duxford around 1973. It shows the B-17 nose and B-26 rear fuse. I believe the B-17 nose was scrapped. These were very historic airwar relics but Duxford didn’t want to know apparently. At least the B-26 bit is still around I hope.

Yes, Folly Lane, that’s right. George Howard & Co, just on the west side of the railway line.
It was many years ago, but I think I’d have clocked any recognisable Wyvern bits and pieces. I don’t recall large chunks of B17 apart from the ball turret, either.
Still trying to track down the photographs!

The story has been pretty well covered before, Cees, and I have nothing new to add.

There were two yards involved in this story, although I’m sure that there must have been at least several more yards in Warrington with aircraft scrap over the years.

The one next to the railway, off Folly Lane, is still there (I think), although free of aircraft scrap. This yard had the B26 & B17 sections, most of which were salvaged for preservation, although we are told the B17 later got scrapped by the IWM (?) In addition, there was the ball turret, lots of propellor blades and radials. I have stated before that there were other (unidentified) sections of aircraft fuselage buried under a mountain of scrap, but I have never heard of these subsequently coming to light. The mountain, however, is long gone.

The other yard being referred to is the one that was just off the A49, south of the town centre, and close by the football stadium. This had the Seafires. These had already gone before I first visited, but there was still lots of aircraft scrap to be found. I can recall several armoured Mosquito seats, one of which I passed to Tony Agar, airborne radar scanners (maybe A.I. sets), and miscellaneous junk. I still have an Armstrong Whitworth (Anson) turret cupola which I’m pretty certain came from there. This yard was much smaller than the other one and was completely cleared a good few years ago now.

I feel there may well be gaps in the story that forum members might be able to fill. My mate may have photos of the B17 and B26 noses in the yard, I will have to ask him next time I see him. I have never seen photos of the salvaged B17 whilst at Duxford, but someone must have taken some? Maybe these would “prove” that it was beyond hope? It was bad, but not bad enough to warrant final scrapping, in my opinion. If sections of the B26 have survived, then so too should bits of the B17, albeit with one of the volunteer groups; were they given an option, I wonder?

Lastly, at the risk of repeating myself, I’m typing this less than 2′ away from the B17’s right hand control column and wheel (my mate has the other one), and the B26 engine control console is out in t’ garage.

Jon,

I took SX300 & SX336 from this yard in 1973.

LA564 came via a third and fourth party but origianted from a scrap yard in Carlisle.

At the time, some wings at Warrington were thought to be Avro Athena. That is not a 100% rock solid ID.

Mark

Ah right – copied the id’s from a previous thread 🙂

Wish that yard was still there! No doubt housing or similar now.

Jon

And for the uneducated an Avro Athena is……………

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Athena

A new one on me.