Was Aeroplane – Is now Forums and Facebook groups?

I help to moderate a Spitfire group on Facebook – I say help, I basically badgered the administrator of the group into making me an admin after it seemed an inordinate amount of spammers were infiltrating and posting all manner of crap on there, and everyone was getting sick of it.

While it is in itself a useful resource at times, it’s also a bit of a bind when people who “know” about Spitfires come in and post all manner of nonsense, cluttering up the feed. I had to eject one member who had built a stunning model of a Spitfire, but basically began to throw insults when I pointed out one tiny flaw (which, it turns out, I was correct about).

And the Messerschmitt 109 group is almost as bad for idiots!! Having said that, I came across one chap in Germany who has an interesting couple of projects that he posts updates about from time to time.

Swings and roundabouts, really! Facebook has its uses, but I find that if I want hard-core expertise, especially where Spitfires are concerned, I’ll end up coming back here.

Great “rags”!

Thanks for your work!

Actually, I’d say quite the opposite. The bredth of Facebook, in terms of historic aviation, is massive. Here, if you’re looking for anything pre-1939, it is very, very limited. It does take some time to navigate your way through the dross on Facebook, but the amount of information there once you start to delve, and the useful contacts to be made there, is simply staggering.

The problem with Facebook and historic aviation, to me at least, is you have to go on there with some prior knowledge on what you’re looking for. If you know a bit about restoration X or company A, and want to follow them, then great. You can get more up-to-date information there if the owner of the group keeps it updated. But the huge advantage of this place is that you can open up the forum, and find somebody’s posted something you have never heard of or never even considered, and suddenyl you’re led down a whole new path of knowledge. If you can see past the predominance of Spitfire stuff (and heaven knows, that’s really valuable in itself) the range of content on here is huge. Because this is not a forum specifically or exclusively about Lancasters, Lightnings, or Vulcans, but instead encompasses anything under the broad umbrella of “Historic Aviation”, then it’s much easier to stumble across some new piece of knowledge. You can flit from an update from the Shuttleworth workshop in one thread, to a discussion about identifying German bomber crash parts, to a query about a particular Lancaster loss, to the depths of esoterica in “Wot plane” to a light-hearted thread about aviation films.
I still can’t think of another medium by which this range and breadth of knowledge is available in one place.

Agreed, his escapades at ‘Burning Man’ this year provided an endless source of entertainment! 🙂

Kermit Weeks is one of the more interesting Facebook users to lurk with. Not always strictly aviation either.

Moggy

You missed ‘Vulcan’ off the list, Mike.

The Spitfire Appreciation Society made for wonderful reading. Plans for every member to donate £300 so they could buy P9374. Arranging a “best bum” competition between the two prominent female members of the group, who promptly left after it became quite clear that the most prolific posters of the group were only really in it to swoon over them…

In general, however, I find Facebook to be an excellent means of keeping up to date with operators and, to a lesser degree, airshows. It’s great to be able to see regular updates from places like La Ferté-Alais and Bremgarten, whose goings on would otherwise be “private”. Even UK operators like BHHH and Hangar 11 have utilised it to good effect – indeed, Peter Teichman posts fairly regular (and very in-depth) updates on the latter, which is a refreshing approach.

Just as a hint for anyone thinking of giving Facebook a go, if a group has ‘Spitfire’, ‘Lancaster’ or ‘Mosquito’ in the title, it is likely to be populated by a high proportion of clueless idiots. As with evey rule, there are exceptions to this.

It can be as much or as little as you want it to be.

You don’t have to have loads of friends, or indeed any at all if you don’t want to. You can join the various groups, and lurk in much the same way as can be done here.

As someone who has never and will never have any involvement with FB seems I am missing out.

Planemike

Yes, again I agree with Mike entirely.

The days are gone when I got most of my information from this forum (and others). Facebook tends to be more up to date and with better information; and from people who have never posted on a forum in their lives.

Yes, there are plenty of groups full of the lower form of life, but it doesn’t take long to find them. Back in the day, there were plenty of people starting their own forums. Some were more successful than others, but the idea is the same.

We moved on from newsgroups to forums, and are steadily moving over to facebook. Usenet is still going, but is a pale shade of what it once was. I gather there are still amateur radio enthusiasts out there too, but they must be a dying breed!

Bruce

It depends very much on the group. Some, as you say, are started, regulated and populated by morons. It is very easy and quick to find out which ones these are, and it only takes a second or two to hit the ‘leave group’ button. Some are administered and populated by pilots, restorers and historians and can be an incredibly useful resource, especially as the majority of such people have been driven away from forums such as this one over the years. Then there are the many pages for individual resorations, museums and operators, regularly updated – again, a hugely useful resource. You just need to pick and chose which groups you join and which pages you follow. Oh, and try to avoid engaging with the mass of idiots that Facebook attracts! 🙂

Oh, and don’t post any photos that you want to retain any sort of control over future usage of, ‘Copyright’ seems to be an alien concept to most Facebook users.

Facebook isn’t the answer, (it probably isn’t even the question) so many of these groups are started by attention seeking individuals, with a poor understanding of the subject, and are like wise joined by similar people; I had a brief flirtation with a $pitfire group, I lasted maybe two weeks, and left shortly before the whole group imploded, whilst discussing the merits of one of the female contributors @rse! they are poorly regulated, and bad language is unrestricted, albeit removable by the groups admin (they aren’t always available).

What it does have going for it is the “like” button, which lets the contributor know that someone out there is vaguely interested in what has been posted; you don’t have to think of something witty, or intelligent to say, just like it; on a forum such as this you may have over a thousand views and just a couple of replies; it would be nice to actually know whether what you have posted is of interest, enough maybe to contribute again.

Bruce….I still think the V-forum format (Key, pprune) (viewable by all, posting only by those signed up) is better than the ‘closed’ Facebook pages

Each has their place, but I would agree with Longshot on this.

I am sure we have passed ‘Peak Forum’ because with the advent of Facebook groups those with specific interests will find their needs more accurately met within a group. I am a lurker on an EE Lightning Group and there is certainly a far greater reservoir of knowledge on that subject within the group, and Lightning stories turn up more frequently.

But as ever it is a function of the administration, and that one in particular has just become a closed group, making it very difficult for all but the most determined ex-Lighning pilot or technician to pop up with something new. But you can see that hobby groups don’t have the resources to support a webmaster and team of highly efficient and charismatic volunteer moderators :angel: to keep the place clear of dross.

So effectively there is a place for both. I see the general forums as a gateway into an interest in aviation which will inevitably develop into an interest in one particular field served by a group or two.

Moggy

Going back to the Facebook groups side of things, some off the aviation ones are useful, others tend to fill up with replies by some people who defy even being described as lower forms of pond life….

Harsh but fairly close to the point….:angel:

Tim S

in a ‘closed community’ you exclude the possibility of unexpected input from someone who doesn’t usually contribute but then offers something incredibly valuable.

Interesting philosophical debate – the natural expectation would be that “the internet” would result in greater knowledge for a greater number of people, but instead debate has become more concentrated in closed or self-selecting groups – which results in that knowledge being actually shared within a smaller pool. Add to that the perceived reduction in printed journals available to people because of the “rise” of the internet and it means potentially that fewer people, rather than more, are in the know.

….but forums in general have had their day. They represent another stage in social networking, but we have moved on. When you can choose the people with whom you have your discussion, a forum such as this, which will engender replies from anyone and everyone is less appealing.

Yes, but in a ‘closed community’ you exclude the possibility of unexpected input from someone who doesn’t usually contribute but then offers something incredibly valuable. Here I speak from experience. I’ve cast my bread upon the water and occasionally the return has been beyond belief!

I found most of them, but am regularly invited to others. It’s a constantly evolving thing!

Bruce….I still think the V-forum format (Key, pprune) (viewable by all, posting only by those signed up) is better than the ‘closed’ Facebook pages…of the Facebook pages I’ve tried to get along with, only one is half-decent. I would agree that Facebook’s photo posting is easier than V-forum’s. Were you invited into the Facebook pages you like or did you find them?

One thing that bothers me is that for every person who takes the time to go out, do their own research and give something their own slant, there are those who virtually copy and paste from elsewhere. I saw one news piece on Peter Teichman’s P-40 rollout last spring which was essentially a 5 minute rework (if that – some sections were identical!) of the information on PT’s website, passed off as that site’s own work. Even more frustrating were the “great article” comments! You can and should do better than that.

Elliott,

Sadly, this has been prevalent for many years, and well before the internet was even considered. I was browsing through the house magazines of a well known manufacturer a while ago, and as I was reading them, I felt sure I had read the piece before, yet it was the first time I had read this magazine. I opened a book by a well known author on the subject, to discover they had lifted the whole text direct from the magazine. I found that disappointing. If I had the time, I would do my own research, and write my own articles and books, but as that commodity is in short supply, I have yet to do so. However, one thing which I will never do, is to plagiarise in the way that is all too common.

longshot – Mike J has it – in order to get a good balanced view of what is going on in aviation land, Facebook is essential. This forum has its uses still, but forums in general have had their day. They represent another stage in social networking, but we have moved on. When you can choose the people with whom you have your discussion, a forum such as this, which will engender replies from anyone and everyone is less appealing. Many, many of my Facebook ‘friends’ posted here in the past, but will no longer do so.

Bruce