Westland Welkin

Very pleased to be of assistance. Gleaned from a book that was going to be chucked away but given to me as a spotter. What a read it was, and what a man Penrose was. So glad it wasn’t skipped and I made the effort to read it.

The Putnams Westland tome gives the Welkin F1 a stalling speed of 86 mph with flaps down and 105 mph clean.

[about the Welkin] “Inevitably they [Boscombe Down] commented adversly on the dive, confirming that after 440 mph the back and forth tremor of the control column and associated pitching increased so much that it was impossible to hold steady or pull out of the dive until entering denser air – and that was a sign of Mach compressability problems of which the Whirlwind’s anomalous behaviour before the war had been one of the first instances”.

Much of the narrative details failures of the propellor constant speed units (sounds terrifying) and multiple asymetric forced landings. It’s nothing short of miraculous that Penrose lived to retirement age.

Sorry Rosevidney, no details found on the stall.

Thank you for the figure of 440 mph. That is valuable information.

That might just be serials allocated and not taken up, this seems to concur with flat12x2, http://cammfollowers.org/aircraft/tempest.html#Production
ie one of the initial 100 Hawker built IIs.

I think there was only 735, 6, 7, 8 & 9

UKserials.com quotes MW699 – 732 & MW735 – 778.
I’m going to stick with 732! 🙂

I would like to learn the stalling speeds and the limiting VNE please.:)

[about the Welkin] “Inevitably they [Boscombe Down] commented adversly on the dive, confirming that after 440 mph the back and forth tremor of the control column and associated pitching increased so much that it was impossible to hold steady or pull out of the dive until entering denser air – and that was a sign of Mach compressability problems of which the Whirlwind’s anomalous behaviour before the war had been one of the first instances”.

Much of the narrative details failures of the propellor constant speed units (sounds terrifying) and multiple asymetric forced landings. It’s nothing short of miraculous that Penrose lived to retirement age.

Sorry Rosevidney, no details found on the stall.

Back to the Welkin

Looks like MW732……

I think there was only 735, 6, 7, 8 & 9

Looks like MW732……

Looks like a Tempest II maybe LA607.

From this view it’s MW73*, 6 or 8 ?

Have you got your memories mixed up, i.e. Kew’s copy has the photos, Hendon’s doesn’t?

Mmmm. I visited Kew three or four times about five years ago to copy parts of the Welkin AP, and there were definitely no cockpit photos in it at that time. Perhaps they hold more than one copy? They certainly have multiple copies of some other type APs.

It was due to not being able to get cockpit illustrations from Kew, that I emailed Hendon, who sent me a photocopy from the AP. I have no idea why someone would say that they do not have any illustrations of a Welkin cockpit, maybe they have lost the AP?

The main Welkin test report at Kew can be found in AVIA18/2541. It is about 40 pages so a photocopy might be quite expensive.

Welkin colour picture

Nice colour picture

Hendon doesn’t have any publications with cockpit views in, according to a phone call I had with them anyway.

Hi steve_p,

I’ve just checked my Kew files and sure enough, there are the cockpit photos of the Welkin in Volume I that I took on one of my trips there. 2nd March 2011 to be precise.

Have you got your memories mixed up, i.e. Kew’s copy has the photos, Hendon’s doesn’t?

The Volume I for the Welkin can be viewed at The National Archives. The file is AIR 10/3051.

It definitely contains cockpit views and notes but I can’t recall if it also includes the Handling Notes. Many (if not all) wartime Vol. Is do though.

There were no cockpit views in it when I had a look through it a few years ago. Hendon has a complete copy with cockpit views in it.

I have been trying to find out for many years if Pilot’s Notes were ever written for the Welkin. It doesn’t seem so and neither Westlands nor Hendon has a copy. I assume the type must have gone through Handling Squadron assessment so perhaps there may be Flight Testing Reports hidden in some archive.

Kew have some handling and test reports. Their copy of the Welkin AP is, sadly, incomplete, though Westland have a complete one. If anybody has a copy of the reports concerning boosting the Welkin’s engines with nitrous oxide to give it a bit more oomph, I would love to see a copy.

I have always loved the clean lines of the Welkin. As the RAF’s first pressurised cockpit fighter, and the world’s largest production single-seat fighter in its day, its a pity that the type has been allowed to slip into obscurity.

I’m sure you lot have seen the Welkin special in the latest Aeroplane. I’ve got Penrose’s description of handling characterisitcs – what do you want to know? Just generally?

I would like to learn the stalling speeds and the limiting VNE please.:)

Spitefull RB515 is seen behind, would agree with Dave Tempest II behind, and they do look like Blenheims on the range in the distance.
Wondering what’s between the two Battles, looks like P-40 or early Mustang?
If you haven’t yet done so check out the photo collection, in the same sequence of Boscombe pictures are clear shots of Brigand, Monitor, Hornet, contra-prop Spitfire 21, Spiteful, Firebrand, Meteor, Vampire, Mustang, Wildcat, Hellcat and Tigercat, amongst many others. Looks like it was possibly a demo of allied WWII air power rather than evaluation?
Here’s a link to one of the pages, but there are many more http://www.stilltimecollection.co.uk/gallery/18-480.html

There are many other intersting aero subjects as well, searching for a particular aircraft seems a bit hit and miss, best to select ‘Air’ and look through all the pages, http://www.stilltimecollection.co.uk/gallery/18-0-.html

Genuinley pleased to have seen this, thanks Flat12x2!

3 Aircraft in the background of photo 3; Blenheims?

Looks like a Tempest II maybe LA607.