Westland Wyvern alive or dead ?.

Even for collector it’s about £50 too much Martin, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FROG-1-72-SCALE-MODEL-KIT-RED-SERIES-WESTLAND-WYVERN-/150953214442?pt=UK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN&hash=item23258341ea
The Frog Wyvern never seemed to get that rare, you still see them built and can be got for around £8, so a cheap way to make one if on a budget.

1:72nd Frog, Trumpeter, CMR, Czechmaster, & Magna (T.3 conversion), 1:48th Trumpeter, Dynavector & Classic Airframes, and a 1:32nd Tigger vacform, the type seems well kitted for a relatively ‘obscure’ British type, its brutish presence propbably helps!

Diminutive version here, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-144-Westland-Wyvern-HMS-Eagle-CafeReo-SPECIAL-13-/121018504854?pt=UK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN&hash=item1c2d43d696

Or if you have the money, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-144-Westland-Wyvern-HMS-Eagle-CafeReo-SPECIAL-13-/121018504854?pt=UK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN&hash=item1c2d43d696

Leave it there is best, great for a bit of deja’vu but the Trumpeter kits are in a different league & absolutely superb!

There it did indeed stay, but it would not be the sort of kit that you would buy to build, more as a collectible item.

How about this one http://www.flyingstations.com/wyvern.html

Thats a very commendable effort which i do like, and its always refreshing to see less obvious types getting some attention.
If i was picky i could highlight a few errors on it….. but i won’t.

Trips to RNAS Ford in the mid-fifties forged my interest in the Wyvern. I first saw in at Farnborough as a toddler!! Found this marvellous footage which includes a Wyvern take-off at 3mins.http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=74375

Yes thats a lovely clip too Charlie. Just wish that Python could be heard :).

Rob

Trips to RNAS Ford in the mid-fifties forged my interest in the Wyvern. I first saw in at Farnborough as a toddler!! Found this marvellous footage which includes a Wyvern take-off at 3mins.

http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=74375

How about this one http://www.flyingstations.com/wyvern.html

Thats interesting vampiredave, especially for you. I’d be intrigued to know what other items or info you come across :).

Rob

The boys’ prize is one of those things that I would love to travel back in time and be part of, suspect you as well Rob!

Indeed so James. I’ll admit to feeling a tinge of jealousy on watching that clip.

When i was at school in the late seventies i did go on a trip to RAF Halton, and got to sample wall to wall Sea Vixens, JP’s, Gnats etc. But sadly no big ‘verns for me during my time, as i’m too young!

Rob

While sorting through my late brother’s effects I came across an unopened 1/72 CMR Westland Wyvern S Mk.4 kit, complete with Pavla RATO gear, Aeroclub EJs, Airwaves Cockpit and Wing Fold set. I never realised that he was a modeller?

Edit: I also found a illustrated BARG monograph on the aircraft. I knew that he was in the Royal Navy so he must have worked on them

I am very tempted – I never built a model of one of my favourite aircraft in my earlier modelling days so now I have started again and found the 1/48 Trumpeter on Amazon for £32………

Leave it there is best, great for a bit of deja’vu but the Trumpeter kits are in a different league & absolutely superb!
Even the vac-form Dynavector kit builds and looks great, as Dr Strangelove here will confirm.

The boys’ prize is one of those things that I would love to travel back in time and be part of, suspect you as well Rob!

I have just seen a Frog kit of a Wyvern in a shop, unopened, £65.

Westland Wyvern in model form

For those who like building models, there are at least 2 kits on the market currently available, both from the TRUMPETER range.

They are in both 1/72 & 1/48 scales.

I think the 48th version has a mechanism to allow the propellers to
contra-rotate when turned by hand etc.

I have built the 72nd scale kit, and it went together exceptionally well.

I also have built the CLASSIC AIRFRAMES 1/48 kit, which was a bit of a challenge.

Even in such small scales, the Wyvern is still a very impressive beast.

Cabbage

Schoolboys prize – A visit on board HMS Ark Royal

Well i can’t take the credit for finding this one, as that goes to another forumite who emailed it to me. But here’s a really nice colour clip of three very lucky schoolboys, with i think WN335.

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/day-out-with-the-navy-aka-boys-and-navy-record-a/query/naval+aircraft

Shame the engine sound has been dubbed with a piston type, as that sure isn’t the howl of a Python!

Rob

Jim – your very welcome mate.

….But it does need to be remembered that a team under the outstanding ‘Teddy’ Petter designed this aircraft, test-pilots risked, and at least two lost, their lives testing it, and service ground and air crews had to make it work, through good times and bad These mens’ success and sacrifice was as great as paid by any other crews during war or peace.

Very well put James.

Rob

edit.. A total of four test pilots lost their lives during its development.

I’ve posted this before but i never tire watching it, although sadly there’s no sound. The Wyvern starts at 2:34 😎

First time I’ve seen that, boy does the Wyvern look awfully big on Illustrious!:eek:

Jim your last para is quite fitting, the Wyvern reflected a changing era where we initially, and desperately, needed a large long-range fighter but was then pushed to the forefront of turbo-prop on carrier technology.
But it does need to be remembered that a team under the outstanding ‘Teddy’ Petter designed this aircraft, test-pilots risked, and at least two lost, their lives testing it, and service ground and air crews had to make it work, through good times and bad These mens’ success and sacrifice was as great as paid by any other crews during war or peace.

James and Rob, Many thanks for the time and trouble to reply to my question. I still think it’s a cake with a cherry on top, regardless of one members idiotic reply, who obviously has no taste.
James, I will phone up prior to going, To me, visualy it is up there with the Spitfire and Hurricane, and a worthy addition to our National Heritage, and all concerned in it’s development, and not least the men who flew them.

Thanks again.

Jim.

Lincoln .7

I’ve posted this before but i never tire watching it, although sadly there’s no sound. The Wyvern starts at 2:34 😎

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/new-deck-landing-device-for-navy

Rob

Had it come up against contemporary Russian designed jet fighters then it would not of stood much chance. With a relatively low maximum speed, and a turning circle the size of Yorkshire because of its high wing loading, it was said that a lightly loaded Wyvern would even struggle in a dogfight against a fully loaded F-84 Thunderjet. It was also very vulnerable to ground and small arms fire.

My feeling with that is is that it is all relative, ie how would the Skyraider fare without top cover, or even the Buccaneer or A-10 (though more manouverble)? All good dedicated ground attack aircraft really need fighter air superiority for the ensemble to work properly, I don’t think any of them would be good in a dog fight – just my thoughts.

I do like the Penrose quote, along with the access to the cockpit one!

BTW that sound clip of the TF.2 is from the Farnborough air show DVD, and it does indeed sound fantastic!

No need James, what you’ve said is as usual very good. I will just add though that the Wyvern did indeed prove itself at Suez as a very stable and accurate strike aircraft, and pilots in general liked it. But that was with complete air superiority on its side whilst making its attack runs. Had it come up against contemporary Russian designed jet fighters then it would not of stood much chance. With a relatively low maximum speed, and a turning circle the size of Yorkshire because of its high wing loading, it was said that a lightly loaded Wyvern would even struggle in a dogfight against a fully loaded F-84 Thunderjet. It was also very vulnerable to ground and small arms fire.

But, as James has already hinted, that was not the fault of the aircraft itself. Three different engines through no fault of its own, and an original specification that changed constantly, its no wonder it took nye on seven years of development to get it right.. well nearly right. And in those seven years just look how much jet fighter design had progressed. The americans on the other hand never got to grips with their A2D Skyshark equivalent, and that was abandoned after the first fatality (but thats a different story and another awesome aeroplane)!

Westland Chief Test Pilot Harold Penrose once said of the Wyvern after most of its niggles had been sorted, it was “very nearly a very good aeroplane”
And i love it! 😎

Rob

Very good!:D

My annual trip down South is coming up, and although it was several years ago, I will go and look at this fantastic looking beast. Would you happen to know why they never went into full production, were they too difficult to master, what could she cruise at and her top speed please, if you happen to know.

Jim, when I visited the FAA Museum in May this year the Wyvern was in the storage facility, so be aware that it might not be on display when you visit.

The Wyvern did go into full production (I have it at 16 TF.1s, 13 TF.2s, 1 T.3, & 97 TF/S.4s), but the design was well and truly compromised early on in its life by Air Ministry and MoS indecision, mainly on behalf of changing RAF and RN requirements.
It was originally specified as a Pacific theatre long-range fighter, which soon lapsed at the end of the war.
My own viewpoint is that the final S.4 variant was a superb ground attack platform, which could have been up there with the Skyraider, but the Python engine wasn’t a great unit to power it – high power turbo-prop options at the time were limited though. It’s possibly fair to say there was never a reliable enough piston or turbo-prop engine around at the time for this aircraft.

Rob can provide a far more in depth answer than I can, and possibly a different viewpoint on why it wasn’t more successful.