What are aviation museums for?

And nowadays most of the people in Civil Service HR posts are temps, on ****** all and with no chance of a pension. My other half has done so for the Police…

Adrian

Moggy, last time our department advertised for a Data Analyst, we had 250 + applications not an uncommon level of response these days for a moderately well paid job with some prospects.

To be honest we just don’t have the resources to reply to every applicant, and this is true for most medium sized businesses, in these competative times.

Steve

The Museum is unable to reply to every application. If you do not hear from us within 2 weeks of the closing date, you should assume that you have not been short-listed for interview.

What do the idle t*ss*rs in ‘Human Resources’ do all day to justify their ill-deserved salaries?

Count the days until their index-linked pensions?

Moggy

Now that we all know how to run an aviation museum, anyone interested?

http://www.museumjobs.com/jobdetails.php?JobID=4680

(possibly more appropriate on the Hendon thread that was running a little while ago if anyone “in power” fancies moving it, but I went for this thread as it is fresher).

Adrian

Just a thought,but how many of us visit “other” museums,ie those NOT connected to aviation? for instance The National Army Museum,local regimental museums etc? These tend to show far more human history than most aviation museums. To be honest many aircraft museums leave me cold,too many aircraft,or lumps of aircraft,and not nearly enough of the human story being told.

Garry.

We are slowly trying to address this one at Doncaster,currently we have a history of the Blitz in Sheffield, the city’s industrial involvement 1939-45. Boards are displayed depicting the stories & experiences of ethnic minorities & local ex service personel who served in world war two.

Two of Doncaster’s own Squadrons have story boards of their histories,along with units from surrounding airfields.

There is also a 25th anniversary display for the Falklands war,( which along with the restored Gazelle-shot down in San Carlos water)has personal issue items,photo’s & stories from those who served down there.

Over the years while researching for many of these human stories,a few veterans are quite happy to give their accounts,but understandably, a high number,essepecially those who have had bad experiences are reluctant to tell thier story.Regrettably as the years march on & more pass away,the opportunity to gather the info is lost.

I am lucky in my line of work as I take many elderly patients to hospital, but once they find out I am ex- RAF then I often get some wonderful annecdotes.

One of the most touching and saddest was an eastern european who was unable to talk much because they were so ill.Whilst I examined them,I saw the number tattoed under their arm that said enough for me to know they had been in a concentation camp(Dachau, if memory serves me well) .
I must admit, at the time I got a lump in my throat and a tear in my eye,as I could only imagine the horrors they went through, but it just goes to show it takes more than words to tell a story.

I am surprised more “Museum” types don’t haunt the forums as the ideas I collect are great.

You’d be surprised…;)

re

You hit the nail on the head here in my view. I recently visited the Parham airfield museum, It is on Par (excuse the pun) with the Tower museum at Bassingbourne. Not having visited the 100th BG tower museum at Thorpe abbots, I cant compare that. But many of these small aviation related voluntary establishments that cater to local aviation history, are as important as some of the large, aircraft filled national museums.
For me sometimes small is better:)

Your absoultely right. I find Metheringham to have an incredible and dignified atmosphere. Even without a/c its still great and you just couldnt get that tranquility at Duxford or Hendon. One of the Damn buster replicas should be aqquired after filming, maybe a cockpit or fuselage section? Would make a great exhibit.

Wanted to thank Moggy again for starting this thread…for me it has been great.

Just to let everyone know input from threads like this does get put to good use…

Based on information from the forum we revised the layout of the new mini theaters going into our museum.

– The theaters have been moved to areas behind the aircraft
– We are improving lighting in selected areas
– Every aircraft has a minimum of 1 clear camera shot
– Select exhibits are being etheir moved or removed (if non essential) from
the floor to allow easier access to get right up to the aircraft.
(but please don’t touch)
– We are in the process of creating a guide book of the museum

Good information always gets put to work around our museum.

www.albertaaviationmuseum.com

Thanks Tom H

2: Educate the public about our history. This could take the form of exciting and informative displays, or simply setting the mood. Examples already fielded on this thread have been the Hurricane wreck at Hendon which clearly demonstrates that pilots and aircraft have been, and continue to be lost in combat, and staying at Hendon – any one of the immaculate airframes showing the artifact in the best possible condition. Education from an engineering point of view is taken care of by sectioning engines or even aircraft. Interactivity with the history is one of the key elements beginning to emerge now. The public don’t want to see rows of aeroplanes in a hangar – they want to touch them and feel the emotion connected to them.

You hit the nail on the head here in my view. I recently visited the Parham airfield museum, It is on Par (excuse the pun) with the Tower museum at Bassingbourne. Not having visited the 100th BG tower museum at Thorpe abbots, I cant compare that. But many of these small aviation related voluntary establishments that cater to local aviation history, are as important as some of the large, aircraft filled national museums.
For me sometimes small is better:)

re

[QUOTE=Tom H;1165938]Sadsack

The Ventura being restored in our facility was recovered from a Northern Canadian crash site and is a WW2 RCAF veteran (sorry don’t have the s/n handy). So I am not understanding the South Africian sensitivities comment, sorry.

I do know the project here has gotten parts from South Africa.

I meant the one stored with the RAFM

Just a thought,but how many of us visit “other” museums,ie those NOT connected to aviation? for instance The National Army Museum,local regimental museums etc? These tend to show far more human history than most aviation museums. To be honest many aircraft museums leave me cold,too many aircraft,or lumps of aircraft,and not nearly enough of the human story being told.

Garry.

Function,

Years ago whilst reading St Exupery a statement he made really taught me something. This was, and I hope I remember it correctly, that when you admire a painting or a sculpture you are not admiring the inanimate object but you are admiring the mind of the person who created it!.

To take it a bit farthur then we are admiring their creators and their operators whilst observing this inanimate object.

George Orwell in his essey on Salvador Dali talked about a wall that was well built and structured but was keeping people in a concentration camp as apposed to a hastily built wall, not well constructed but was preventing a village being washed away. This was a good wall so he draws the conclusion that for a thing to be celebrated it’s function should be acknowledged. By the way he considered Dali as excreble though a good “penman” due to his tendancy to degrade things.

So we remember the heros but perhaps not so the “bad hats” and I think this is just!

The function therefore is to remind us we are midgets on the shoulders of giants and if we know where we come from we can continue the dreams of the “good hats”

please excuse my spelling!

Sadsack

The Ventura being restored in our facility was recovered from a Northern Canadian crash site and is a WW2 RCAF veteran (sorry don’t have the s/n handy). So I am not understanding the South Africian sensitivities comment, sorry.

I do know the project here has gotten parts from South Africa.

The VMFA’s project in Edmonton is has come a long long way since being recovered from north of Yellowknife in the Northwest Territiories. Most parts are now on hand and I believe they have complied the largest most accurate archives on the type…right down to copies of the original union agreements.

As I understand it the problem now comes down to bomb bay doors, some small parts and $$$$.

Tremendous research has gone into the detail of this restoration and other than required changes (to meet the airworthiness regs of today) the aircraft will be excatly the same as when it came into Canadian service in 1943. Yes even the radars and the Gurnsey Girl.

$$$$ is the biggest issue….our standing joke right now is that the Ventura is 1 year and $750,000.00 away from flying or 750 years at $1,000.00 per year.

It pays to have a sense of humour and the Ventura team has done a fantastic job ( not to mention helped a number of other museums and groups along the way) in a detailed restoration that is now in it’s 19th year.

When done the intent is to tour the aircraft so all the remaining Ventura veterans in North America (maybe Europe) and their families will get to see the aircraft before it is too late.

Steve Bond

You are right…in our haste to celebrate the technology of the time we often miss the people.

That is why some museums (like ours) has undertaken oral and video histories, we are in the process of adding (9) small mini theaters to help tell the story of the people and are embarking on a major exhibit “The People of Aviation”.

An aircraft is just a tool, it’s the people that use it that make the history.

You are also very right about UV, we have spent alot of money UV blocking all the exterior windows in our facility sa well as the glass on the display cases.

Thanks Tom H

Tom H

Almost every response to this thread (but not all) has concentrated on aeroplanes, but aviation museums are surely about more than that? Aeroplanes are nothing without people to design, build, test, fly, repair and control them; not to mention the airfields they fly from. If you ignore the human aspect, what you have left is a collection of metal objects – interesting, but just that.

As for the much-criticised lighting levels at Hendon, this has been discussed here many times before. I wonder if the critics have ever seriously thought about why the lighting is kept so low. The answer is simple, it is for the benefit of the long-term preservation of the artifacts by minimising the destructive power of ultraviolet light. If you are unsure about that, take a look, for example, at what happens to aircraft canopies when subjected to long-term outdoor exposure.

I accept that this form of display makes photography difficult, but let us be frank here. Is it more important to display exhibits in conditions which allow visitors in 2007 to get good photographs, or to maintain them in a way that has a good chance of their being in an identical state in a hundred years time, when we are all dust?

re

SadSack

If they don’t want the Ventura let me know!!!

One of the teams in our museum has been working for over a decade to get one back in the air!!!!

Tom H

Is it true they are worried about the “sensitivities” that it came from South Africa, well they were aware when they obtained it surely?

SadSack

If they don’t want the Ventura let me know!!!

One of the teams in our museum has been working for over a decade to get one back in the air!!!!

Tom H

re

The spitfires stored at the RAF Museum should be loaned out. And if they dont want the Ventura I’m sure somebody else would happily restore it.

Two threads, one discussing whether to display a wrecked aircraft or a restored mostly-replica, the other mentioning that some museum lighting makes it difficult to take photographs there have prompted me to ask..

Just what do people want from an aviation museum?

I like to see two different types, luckily I am within easy reach of many.

The flying collection where we see these lovely shapes with air under their wings and a growl in their throat.

The historic collection where history is preserved and presented informatively.

Two of the most poignant UK historic displays I know are the Hurricane wreckage at Hendon, and the half and half 109 diorama at Duxford.

I like the moody lighting at Hendon too. Am I really alone in this?

Moggy

Moody lighting is good,(unless you take photo’s)as it reduces the cost (of electricity) to a museum esspecially if you do it with skylights.:diablo:

Seriously, many of our museums do not seem to realise that we are both lucky & unlucky in having such a great number of them,lucky because there is almost one on everybodies doorstep,but unlucky in that they get some stick for preserving too many of one type, never enough literature with exhibits,taking too long to restore an aircraft & sadly having a “its mine & your not having it” attitude to another group etc.

In an ideal world what I would like from all museums is to share exhibits where possible-lets face it we cannot always afford get to every museum in the country & there are many out there that have certain aircraft/artifacts currently in storage that are other museums would love to display but are denied the opportunity.

Ok I accept it is impossible to move a Vulcan sized aircraft without doing some serious damage:eek: & some(not me!!!) would argue that all Spitfires are too valuable to go to Fred Bloggs’ Aviation emporium,:rolleyes: but if a Museum has a decent reputation and is willing and able to display a type on another groups terms then why the heck not? (I know a few such as the odd Meteor & other less attractive types already are on loan, but a Spitfire-its enough to make a trustee splutter on his G&T:D 😀 ) After all, many of the big boys out there started out no bigger than their first exhibit,plus it can have a major positive affect in that the good publicity of the loan can potentially increase.

So in a nutshell, what I want from a museum is to see all of its exhibits whether it is on its own site or that of another museum.

re

YES:diablo:

Any idea what the hangars were like when they were hangers, without all the cladding on them? I’m unclear what Hendon was used for post war. Were they dark then?

What I really do like is to see somthing I have not before and this is a very wide thing. For example at Duxford you never know whats going to be parked outside, if the same a/c will be lined up with similar a/c in the hangar when your next there. You can take pics of the same a/c in a totally different setting or even in the case of the Lysander see it parked with 2 others. Hence I hate this stupid idea of hanging them from roofs. Sadly this ridiculous idea of not opening doors is going to kill the live feel of Duxford a bit.

If given the chance I would rip that ridiculous milestones of flight at Hendon apart. The truly significant a/c are not in there. A large model of the Vimy in a diorama, a Meteor, a MIG 15, a Hurricane, A real Spitfire, A replica X-plane, all of these would be far more relevant than most of the a/c in there. What has a KI100 got to do with anything? The real Fairey Delta and the X15 are somewhat important, along with an exhibit related to the Miles supersonic project. No concorde exhibit! Are there any missiles in there? A Komet? Or a Comet nose section? Any mention of the worlds 1st jet powered flight? The whole building seems empty. It really is awful.

Thanks Moggy

Thanks Moggy

This thread has given me a number of new ideas to incorporate in our Museum.

I am surprised more “Museum” types don’t haunt the forums as the ideas I collect are great.

thanks to all that posted

Tom H