What are Luftwaffe 'Theatre Bands' for?

Trigger happy is firing willy nilly. The Navy were ordered to fire regardless of identification. That’s different.

Is it? Surely, the end result is exactly the same; opening fire on ‘any aircraft within range regardless of identification’? The Royal Navy gunners may have been ordered to do this, and those that ordered them to do so may have felt justified, but that doesn’t alter the end result one iota.

I understand that you have a personal involvement and I meant no disrespect by using the phrase ‘trigger-happy’ but it does seem to describe exactly the actions of Royal Navy gunners…

…even if they were following their orders to the letter.

It would be rather difficult to conduct a war if all aircraft were never at any time to be flying in the direction of any ship anywhere. Particularly, I’d point to D-day, with the entire Channel full of ships all demanding continuous air cover…..

Trigger happy is firing willy-nilly. Yes, that looks like a spot-on description of too many incidents. However, on D-day many RN ships were actually carrying trained aircraft spotters, which makes nonsense of your claim that they “were ordered to fire regardless of identification.” If that were true there’d be no requirement to carry these spotters.

No offence intended…..but isn’t that the definition of ‘trigger-happy’?

Trigger happy is firing willy nilly. The Navy were ordered to fire regardless of identification. That’s different.
Aircraft should stay away.

Actually, that’s probably the incident I was thinking of; it certainly involved RAF Typhoon fighter-bombers.

Yep thats the one.A sad state of affairs.On the other side..Operation Bodenplatte – 237 Dead

Sometimes, even both sides visually identifying the other wasn’t enough…

Actually, that’s probably the incident I was thinking of; it certainly involved RAF Typhoon fighter-bombers.

The Royal Navy were not trigger happy. They would fire on any aircraft that approached them in a menacing fashion.

Normally this would equate to any aircraft in range…

No offence intended…..but isn’t that the definition of ‘trigger-happy’?

In fact the actions of Royal Navy (or in fairness US Navy) gunners and the captains of the ships are understandable; the RAF sank at least one Royal Navy warship in broad daylight on D-Day. (I’ll look-up that one.)

Aircraft identification, especially ground-to-air, has always been a problem in wartime and it has possibly been made worse in the RADAR dominated environment of today.

I can understand that both the Luftwaffe and the RAF would be looking to assist identification but for slightly different reasons. The Luftwaffe in particular had so few aircraft and such a lot of effective AAA that it was important that their gunners didn’t assume that all aircraft were hostile!

Sometimes, even both sides visually identifying the other wasn’t enough

http://www.halcyon-class.co.uk/FriendlyFire/friendly_fire.htm

When the lookout shouted, “Aircraft on the port side”, everybody got up, but we couldn’t see anything because the sun was shining straight in our eyes. Then the lookout called, “They’re friendly aircraft”.

Owing to doubt as to identity, controller was asked 4 times whether to attack and was told that the ships fired coloured lights, Controller said no friendly ships in area and ordered attack.

2 sunk, 86 dead, 124 wounded.

The Royal Navy were not trigger happy. They would fire on any aircraft that approached them in a menacing fashion

In other words ‘can’t be arsed to do aircraft rec – shoot at it anyway’

some things never change!

Wonder if your father would have been happy to be attacked by Beaufighters because ‘the unidentified ship approached in a menacing fashion’

The Royal Navy were not trigger happy. They would fire on any aircraft that approached them in a menacing fashion. Normally this would equate to any aircraft in range. My father were a grue operator on HMS Anson and was ordered to target any aircraft within range. A ship is a far more valuable and vulnerable asset.

I would also like to challenge these bands being used for identification. Surely if you can see the band you are close enough to I’d the aircraft? More importantly you have probably already fired at the aircraft long before. Sounds to me more like an admin function. To be able to I’d the aircraft if crashed, or when sending the aircraft for repair? Most B17 crew could not tell the difference between a P47 and a FW190 let alone the shape and colour. In combat everything looks hostile.

Thanks for the answers (and link).

I had no idea that ‘theatre bands’ were designed for identification / recognition purposes! I’d assumed that they were some form of administrative device for identification of the theatre (or front) that the aircraft was operating on and after (wrongly) assuming this I couldn’t figure out who would benefit from the different coloured bands?

I am still a little confused as to who these identification bands were for; would markings on the rear fuselage show-up well from the rear in air-to-air combat (or better than crosses, stars or roundels on the wings)? Maybe ground-troops were more likely to see them? I was under the impression that D-Day ‘invasion stripes’ were intended primarily for the (notoriously trigger-happy) gunners of the Royal Navy!

Just to broaden the identification discussion slightly I was asked the other day why Luftwaffe Bf109 fighters had yellow noses during the Battle-of-Britain? Clearly it was for identification but, when I thought about it, I suggested it was probably for the benefit of the gunners in Luftwaffe bombers; surely the yellow nose of an escorting fighter is better placed to be seen by the gunner of a Luftwaffe bomber rather than the pilot of another Luftwaffe fighter?

I think Creaking Door’s question is more about why have different colours between the Med and the Russian theatres, why not just have yellow globally for example. Great question by the way, wish I knew the answer!

For the same reason the RAF fighters had the Sky band around the fuselage and yellow outer leading edges, or the D Day aircraft had the black/white stripes, US fighters had white or black bands on wings and tails surfaces and Japanese aircraft had the inner wing leading edges painted yellow – quick identification in a confused environment. All air forces had them and still do in some form or other.

There were two main theatre bands CD… white for the Mediterranean theatre of Ops and yellow was used on the Eastern Front. These were applied, sometimes in conjunction with a similarly coloured nose, engine cowlngs, wing tips or rudders, to aid quick identification both in the air and on the ground. During the later stages of the war, when defence of the Reich was the Luftwaffe’s main priority, a series of one, two or even three coloured fuselage bands was introduced and this also stemmed from the need for quick air-to-air identification between Luftwaffe units and the Allied escorts. The page linked below explains the RV (Reichsluftverteidigung) bands and is taken from an official Luftwaffe document dated 20.Feb.45:

http://fw190.hobbyvista.com/markings.htm

Cheers
Pete