What does aircraft preservation mean to you?

Lets be honest,preservation & conservation go hand in hand.however whether it takes weeks,months or even years you cannot beat finding someone elses “junk” corroding away in a field somewhere,taking it off their hands, finding/making replacement parts, toiling almost night & day with sandpaper or wirebrush,taking chunks out of your knuckles,applying primer & topcoats, letting your coffee/tea go cold,not really noticing just how well it is coming together until-bingo there in front of you sits a beautifully restored “treasure” to be appreciated-capped off by the awe & admiration of Joe Public & veteran alike.( I have seen veterans turn into “kids in sweetshops” when they see the end result).

I know there are some out there who would prefer to see an aeroplane in its natural environment i.e. in the air,but spare a thought for the guys who can only restore to static……they put as much love & graft into their work even if the end result is theirs won’t fly.:)

What aircraft preservation means to me

Showing kids of today what these aeroplanes were like , for them to be able to see (and yes touch) them to see what is inside them etc .

As a kid used to hate going to museums and having to stay on the wrong side of the rope , these days it is good to see museums open up there aeroplanes for people to enjoy.

Kids like these below (my older two little darlings) are the future of aircraft preservation , we need to get them interested not telling them not to touch.

cheers dave

What preservation means to me

I have spent over 20 years in a/c & military vehicle preservation/restoration & this is what preservation means to me ;- We should all strive to encourage younger generations to appreciate and learn from all forms of heritage and those people who built and used it-we are very lucky in many ways that we have in the region of 70 aircraft museums in the U.K. plus countless other heritage attractions.This allows us all the opportunity to see somewhere in the region of over 1000 aircraft, admittedly some are duplicated,some are even unique examples that have been saved by a small group.

However it can potentially lead to people making a career choice from which we can all benefit.How many pilots, engineers or those who serve in the armed forces owe their livelyhoods to seeing a museum exhibit? Also how many of us would have got into the preservation movement if we had only a few museums to go to?If it wasn’t for the preservationists learning & using, almost forgotton skills where would we be if we should need to take a retrograde step in technology& need them again?

But the number of museums also mean that potentialy visitors have a great choice of attractions to choose from,plus for some people it is the only opportunity to work on restoring something that they love-sadly we can’t all be pilots or engineers or own an aeroplane or cockpit but for those that are’nt that lucky its the next best thing.

For me, it’s the challenge of (re)learning old skills, overcoming obstacles and bringing back to life previously extinct items of our aviation heritage. I love the smell of old aircraft and trying to get into the minds of the original designers and craftsmen (& women) who made them.

John

My sentiments exactly.

In addition, after 20 odd years, much of it spent immersed in 60 year-old Aeroshell oil, I still feel the same way, so it is refreshing to know that what makes me happy is also helping to preserve such equipment for future generations.

Pete

I try and do a small bit to preserving the memory of those who were lost in WW2 as well as those who survived. I consider myself incredibly fortunate to be in a position to be able to meet and talk with surviving veterans from that time………generations coming behind me won’t have that opportunity but hopefully some of the information I’ve gathered and preserved will help them to remember and understand what those brave men and women did for us all.

Linzee
www.archieraf.co.uk

Aircraft Preservation
To me aircraft presevation is about a number of different things:

1) Honouring those paid the ultimate price for our freedome. Stone crosses have their place and role, a preserved aircraft often says more than an 11th hour pause. It’s many hours of hard work and dedication leading to the 11th.

2) Honouring the great industrial heritage of this nation. Heritage does not end with victorian mills, its in names like AVRoe, Handley Page, Vickers, Hawker and Bristrol. The pioneering engineers, Stevenson’s and Brunell’s torch carriers, that showed what this nation was capable of in a mannner no less worthy than GWR or The Flying Scotsman.

3) Its keeping histroy alive, a sky bereft of Merlins, Avons, and Cyclones is a quiet sky in deed. Living history is harder to forget and ignore. I belive it also inspires our dreams of the future.

4) Its mechanical endevour, the simple challenge and joy of rebuilding and bringing back to life any sort of machine, from an old lathe, to a Vulcan. With that is the sprit of fraternity amongst those of a common fascination.

Chancer

What does aircraft preservation mean to you?

I enjoy being able to watch people take a long-term view and I also admire people’s patience in delivering quality projects on shoestring budgets, whatever the time frame.

Has anyone seen the Gnat at Newark since it moved onto display yesterday after nearly seven years work?

Scroll down their news page on the link below for more details …….

http://www.newarkairmuseum.org/news.php

Or check out the QRA Hanger Project at Brunty; the Dave Collins Hornet project; Tony Dyer’s cockpits; etc, etc, etc

I have been part of organisations, that have rejected offers of assistance from people who they consider as not having the right background. IMHO any offer of assistance should be gratefully received, whether it be from a retired tradesman or from an ‘enthusiastic amateur’. In todays world with so many distractions, it is a delight to see people with real enthusiasm offering their time and expertise, whether it be cleaning corrosion, managing websites or assisting with cataloguing and research.

😀 John

Youre quite right there John, how on earth some organisations expect to have a future with an attitude like that is crazy, besides, everyone has to learn somewhere, and not everyone is clever enough to pass the right exams so a museum is a good place to learn.

Bex

I have been part of organisations, that have rejected offers of assistance from people who they consider as not having the right background. IMHO any offer of assistance should be gratefully received, whether it be from a retired tradesman or from an ‘enthusiastic amateur’. In todays world with so many distractions, it is a delight to see people with real enthusiasm offering their time and expertise, whether it be cleaning corrosion, managing websites or assisting with cataloguing and research.

😀 John

Well Done Everyone, whatever the state of preservation!

From my point of view without preservation there would be no motivation!

I look at the projects you guys and girls are doing and it really is amazing, and just enthuses one to get involved.

I`ve been gagging to get up to Brunty as I can`t get over to Thunder City yet, so my apologies! Pete, fantastic job with that panel of yours and of course FM159! I have also met Stuart and seen his handy work! NICE!

I`ll try not to go off subject but as group members of the British Aviation Preservation Council we have access to the National Aviation Heritage Skills Initiative that some of our volunteers attend, even those like myself with no aviation experience and personally I am just enthralled to learn, get involved, and to do things “properly”. We are trying to do the “preservation” thing, and in some respects this would be “conservation” (lets please forget the formalities just now) but with an aerodrome at present, but thats on another thread so I shall shut my trap!;) Said aerodrome is just under two hours from where I live so, yes, travelling is a thorn in ones side with any project. There are only so many hours available to do ones passion!!

Anyway, a Bigs Thanks to all you guys and girls “doing something” that inspires others out there so much. My next stop will be the XH558 thread, but my, I cannot wait to see her fly again, whatever the controversy!

Heres to all the aircraft preservations out there!

Tony
Bomber Command Heritage

Don’t go winding me up :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo:

Roger Smith.

I think its a great place to visit. I just needed an example of a private museum which has become superb. I could have used Newark, but I’ve never been there. 😀 I would have used our place, but we havn’t got out of the ‘aeroplanes in a field’ phase quite yet…..

…. To use MAM as an example, I guarantee that the bloke who had the first ‘lets get an aeroplane’ idea never really thought that it would blossom into the amazing facility it is now…..

Don’t go winding me up :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo:

Roger Smith.

Ritch, Kev,

Ive just re read your posts about our Veterans. Im thoroughly speechless to say the least and funnily enough, it was a Veteran who got me interested in aircraft. I grew up going to see a gentleman after school, I used to spend hours i his flat talking to him, he was a test pilot Rolls Royce & Hawker during the war as the RAF refused to let him serve as they considered him more use where he was.

It certainly makes me feel great when I hear those words “I flew that” or “I used to maintain those” and if anyone on here has met me will know Im happy to chat for as long as possible about Cranberry’s. Yes Im proud of the fact Im allowed to do what I do, but Im even more proud of the fact it gives me the chance to meet those who flew in our defense and shake their hand in thanks. Although, when I think about it, a hand shake isnt that much really is it?

Bex

What does aircraft preservation mean to you?

On a Saturday at Bruntingthorpe, it means hard work, getting freezing cold and wet, or sunburned (sometimes all in one day!). It means going home smelling of aviation fuel and Hydraulic oil, but most of all it means spending time with a bunch of the best friends a man could ever have, laughing and joking over hot cups of tea.

On a weekend in June, it means dragging my son’s cockpit and instrument panel collection to Newark, seeing and sharing all the other cockpitfesters wonderful and skilful work. Marvelling at how some even managed to get these wonderful pieces of history to the event, but the very best bit, sharing a weekend amongst friends, sitting with a can of cold beer and a bag of hot fish and chips, in the shade of the Vulcan, watching the sun go down and talking about aircraft.

On a cold winters Saturday, sitting in a portacabin at the MAM, and doing one of the BAPC volunteer courses, and seeing the look on my sons face when he got his City and Guilds certificate through the post a few weeks later, and during the breaks, wondering around with a cup of tea, talking to friends, seeing the progress being made since our last visit, and admiring there hard work and dedication.

Aircraft preservation can be almost anything you want it to be, it’s your choice, but do what feels comfortable to you, don’t think you need to be an trained engineer or ex RAF, there is always something for everyone to do, if they want to, enjoy it, and make the best friends you could possibly ever have, and help preserve the past for the future. We do.

Well you cant make it any clearer than that, thanks Ritch, thats spot on. Bex

“All three of the others without hesitation pulled him up, they told him he was there hero! he did it without an engine!!”

That reminds me of Legends 2006. My girlfriend and I met Jimmy Stewart, CAM ship pilot, shot down a Condor, baled out into sea, flew Typhoons with 609, shot down, captured and ended in a concentration camp I believe. Very nice, affable, gentle man. Of course, like the majority of veterans, in his eyes, he had done nothing at all out of the ordinary. We sat rapt as he spoke to us about the past. He asked Lisa if anyone in her family had served during the war? She told him about her Grandad, wireless operator in a Churchill of the 79th Armoured Division. Straight away Jimmy said “Hell no” Now there’s a hero, couldn’t have gone to war in a tank!” When we related the story to Lisa’s Grandad of how we had been talking to a World War Two fighter pilot he said ” Now there’s a hero, couldn’t have gone to war all on my own like that.” As an aside, each time that particular Churchill crew knew they were getting ready to go into action, all six of them used to stand in a circle and sing ‘Abide with me.’ I can’t think of anything more touching.

But I have digressed. I’m involved in a small way as I help out when I can in the winter months on the aircraft cleaning team at Old Warden. What do I give? It seems insignificant in comparison to what I receive in return. Companionship, fellowship, the feeling of being a part of a team and putting just a little bit back into historic aviation. I also have the undeniable privelege of access to some of the most beautiful and rare aeroplanes in Britain. While cleaning the white Moth G-EBWD last year I was reminded by a friend that we were actually cleaning the aircraft which started the Shuttleworth Collection. Priceless.

At home I try wherever I can to help with research for anyone who wants my help. Knowledge is limited but increasing all the time and sometimes the simplest half hour’s work can lead to giving a family some information that has been lost to them for 60 years. Now that is rewarding.

For me personally, the people are far more important than the hardware. It’s the memories that illuminate the history for me far more than the airframes or the tanks. But each has its place. For me it is the veterans themselves. We’ve all looked into their eyes but we can never see what they’ve seen, we can never walk the proverbial mile in their shoes. But we can listen, and more importantly hear.

And say thank you and shake their hand.

Regards,

kev35

What does aircraft preservation mean to you?

What does aircraft preservation mean to you?

On a Saturday at Bruntingthorpe, it means hard work, getting freezing cold and wet, or sunburned (sometimes all in one day!). It means going home smelling of aviation fuel and Hydraulic oil, but most of all it means spending time with a bunch of the best friends a man could ever have, laughing and joking over hot cups of tea.

On a weekend in June, it means dragging my son’s cockpit and instrument panel collection to Newark, seeing and sharing all the other cockpitfesters wonderful and skilful work. Marvelling at how some even managed to get these wonderful pieces of history to the event, but the very best bit, sharing a weekend amongst friends, sitting with a can of cold beer and a bag of hot fish and chips, in the shade of the Vulcan, watching the sun go down and talking about aircraft.

On a cold winters Saturday, sitting in a portacabin at the MAM, and doing one of the BAPC volunteer courses, and seeing the look on my sons face when he got his City and Guilds certificate through the post a few weeks later, and during the breaks, wondering around with a cup of tea, talking to friends, seeing the progress being made since our last visit, and admiring there hard work and dedication.

Aircraft preservation can be almost anything you want it to be, it’s your choice, but do what feels comfortable to you, don’t think you need to be an trained engineer or ex RAF, there is always something for everyone to do, if they want to, enjoy it, and make the best friends you could possibly ever have, and help preserve the past for the future. We do.

Re Another type of preservation.

Re PETER’s posting “Another type of preservation not yet mentioned is the preservation of veterans stories and personal accounts”
Earlier this year we had the privalage to help out at the 2007 “Project Propeler” event held at Bruntingthorpe, if you don’t know what this brilliant organisation does, take a look at there web site.
It has to be the single most enjoyable and humbling day I have ever spent around aircraft. At one point during the day we had opened up the Supper Guppy to give shelter from the heavy rain, I was talking to a small group of men, and I asked them each, what had they done durring the war? The first guy had flown Hurricans in the Battle of Britain, got to close to France, then shot down, made his way home again, and got shot down over France a second time and made a POW. The second guy had flown Sunderland’s, the third Lancaster’s, but the forth guy told me he felt a bit of a fraud even being there, he had flown gliders into Burma. All three of the others without hesitation pulled him up, they told him he was there hero! he did it without an engine!!
What a fantastic day, and they are always after volunteers to help at events, try it, you won’t be disopointed!!!

Peoples responses to this thread have been amazing. It certainly opened my eyes to people Id forgotten or hadnt thought about, such as authors & web owners & the researchers. Ive also met some wonderful people both on here and in real life which has made everything worthwhile.

Bex

To me its ultimatly about preserving airframes, their history and their stories.
It starts at the top with museums and librarys, through people like yourself with an airframe or cockpit, down to personnal collections of artefacts, documents and recollections. Researching and documenting the past is very important to this end (and why this forumi s so good).
I was involved in the resto of St Mawgans Shack, just wish there is something in S.Wales I can get involved in.
Supporting local aviation groups and witnessing talks by people that ‘were actually there’ (particularly as many are passing away now) is important to.

I am worried about the current trend of “lets scrap this one because there’s another one over there”, it seems to have resurfaced from about 15 years ago. This is why there is one Beverley, and the likes of Tridents and Vulcans are gradually dwindling away.

Re 558, Im fully supportive of the aims of VTTS, but find it a bit business like or corporative, and their website seems to lack genuine news.

A stark reality

Another type of preservation not yet mentioned is the preservation of veterans stories and personal accounts. I know Steve Hatton has made some inroads into this.
It is inevitable that down the road we will no longer have any living ww2 veterans to give their accounts etc and we will only have the aircraft, tools, vehicles documents etc to teach future generations about ww2.

This makes it even more important for everyone to do their part in preservation wether it be volunteering at their lcal museum, helping a mate with a project, collecting items for preservation or listening to Nana/Grandad tell tales from their experiences in ww2.

I am proud of each and everyone of you that takes the time and personal cost of preserving British aviation heritage big and small!!:)