What ever happened to the JP Mk.4s?

We have traced five pilots of our JP Mk4 XS186, who flew her from Manby between 1964 and 1968.
Some of the anecdotes suggest the Mk4 was a bit too popular for it’s own good, with very regular stories of aircraft exceeding G limits during manouveres which the 3’s just would not do.
One pilot we are now in regular touch with was known for ‘sky-writing’ the M for Manby in XS186 as part of his solo display routine, and on more than one occasion stressed the airframe beyond it’s suggested limits by some margin. A bit before my time but apparently not uncommon in those halcyon days ….. probably explains why XS186 was retired in 1968 after just four years, a bit before most others, but probably because she was one of the first pair of Mk4’s to be delivered to Manby (with XS209) and attracted a bit of attention when 3’s had been the only fun before them ?

when I was playing with them at Halton on de old fitters course [shades of the JP5A at Cranwell in the future] I asked one of the instructors this same question and his reply was that as the JP4 had a bigger heavier engine fitted to a JP3 structure the stresses and strains of this engine had caused cracking in the engine bay area that hadn’t been accounted for by the stress guys also the training regime they had been put through had used up the fatigue life faster than expected. Both of these factors meant that although most of the JP4’s were not life expired the cost of repairing the fleet was not worthwhile.

In contrast when the wings of the JP5 fleet were found to be cracking [ although most appeared to be the stronger Strikemaster wings- JP5 owners look for pairs of big bolts under each wing} the 5FI programme was instituted. This required that access holes be drilled in the upper surface so that an endoscope could be used to inspect the structure. During this programme it was discovered that the wings of the JP5’s were shot therefore the aircraft with the lowest fatigue lives and the best condition wings had tip tanks fitted to become JP5B’s- in some cases good wings were swapped about to create the best option.

HTH
Cheers
Mad Jock

Now we are talking

David

That sounds interesting. I had wondered if the flight profile was to blame. Can anyone elaborate on high-low-high please?

Bob

From memory they were used for something called ‘high-low-high’ training which effectively used up the fatigue life quick. The engine whilst producing more thrust wasn’t significantly heavier nor was the aircraft particularily much faster.

just to add about halton there are at least 4 substantial JP still there 1 of them is the horse jump one which was near to the main gym, and there are from seeing myself 2 others on the airfield boundary slowly rotting, i haven’t personnaly seen the fourth one

Splendid effort so far chaps, thanks for that. However you can see my problem the information is just not out there.

I am sure the fatigue lift usage is key to their demise, however locating the reasons for that is problematic. And I am lothed to commit to print with a reason why if we cannot bottom the problem out.

Any thoughts on how I should approach this?

I would think the story covers something along the lines of;

Bigger engine – heavier aircraft – higher fatigue life usage

Faster type – higher fatigue usage

Higher performance – advanced sortie profile – higher fatigue usage

What do you guys think about this as a credible paragraph?

Bob

I understand that they were withdrawn due to approaching their fatigue lives.

There is a bit more here

http://www.jetprovostheaven.com/jpt4/jpt4history.html

That’s the same story I’ve always heard. The Mk.4 disappeared because it was heavier and had worn-out more quickly, so it reached a stage where only CATCS and 1TWU operated the aircraft while the Mk.3 remained active with the Flying Training Schools.

Can I suggest the very useful UK serials site for details of individual aircraft disposals etc?

http://www.ukserials.com/

The CATCS (Air Traffic Control School) was at RAF Shawbury, Shropshire and still is. (As is the defence Helicopter School).

I seem to recall that when they were retired from flying some went to train air traffic controllers. Were they were based for this i have absolutely no idea sorry:confused:

I was told, when I was at RAF Church Fenton in the late 80s, that the Mk 4 JPs had all retired early because they were the most heavily used and had run out of hours. I have no idea whether this information is correct but perhaps others more knowledgeable will confirm or deny it.

The log below is taken directly from my database.
The JP”S were stored at RAF Haltons “runway”, dont’t have any pictures.
There were several other airframes stored at the same spot or in the nearby hangers.
(Jaguars, Gnats, Whirwind, Hunter and other marks JP).

Hope this helps.

JET PROVOST 4 XP556 B RAF UK 27-7-1993 HALTON now preserved
JET PROVOST 4 XP563 C RAF UK 27-7-1993 HALTON To South Korea
JET PROVOST 4 XP573 19 RAF UK 27-7-1993 HALTON Jersey AP dump
JET PROVOST 4 XP638 A RAF UK 27-7-1993 HALTON Scrapped
JET PROVOST 4 XP640 D RAF UK 27-7-1993 HALTON Preserved at YAM
JET PROVOST 4 XP688 RAF UK 27-7-1993 HALTON Submerged Eccleston
JET PROVOST 4 XP585 24 RAF UK 27-7-1993 HALTON i/a Wrexham
JET PROVOST 4 XR662 25 RAF UK 27-7-1993 HALTON Preserved Woverhampton
JET PROVOST 4 XR672 50 RAF UK 27-7-1993 HALTON still there as horsejump
JET PROVOST 4 XR673 L RAF UK 27-7-1993 HALTON to G-BXLO
JET PROVOST 4 XR674 D RAF UK 27-7-1993 HALTON to G-TOMG w/o 1999
JET PROVOST 4 XS176 F RAF UK 27-7-1993 HALTON Scrapped
JET PROVOST 4 XS179 20 RAF UK 27-7-1993 HALTON i/a Manchester
JET PROVOST 4 XS181 M RAF UK 27-7-1993 HALTON Scrapped
JET PROVOST 4 XS209 29 RAF UK 27-7-1993 HALTON Preserced Carlisle
JET PROVOST 4 XS217 O RAF UK 27-7-1993 HALTON Preserved Wernigerode, Germany

And this one at RAF Valley.

JET PROVOST 4 XS177 9044M RAF UK 2-8-1994 VALLEY now preserved at Metheringham

XS216 is scrapped
XR670 is stored at the Hermeskeil museum, Germany
XS180 was/is at St Athan
XP627 is preserved at NEAM

These are the ones that I came across during a long period

In ’93 or ’94 I visited RAF Halton.
There were some 20 Mk 4’s stored waiting for their disposal..
Most went to the USA I think.

I will post the serials later.

Thats interesting. I had found a few references to aircraft coming off the production line straight into storage. Apparently the 52 gave good service where they were deployed. Its the ones in RAF service that are causing me the headache.

Nice picture by the way!

Jet Provost T4

Hi.
We have a Jet Provost T4 at the Dumfries and Galloway Aviation Museum. I have just finished rebuilding the cockpit, there’s the seats to go in now. I think it originally came from Cranwell.

Some were converted to Mark 52s for export. G-PROV, which is currently based at North Weald started life as a Mark 4 at Warton in 1964. PAC/W/23905 (XS228) was delivered to the RAF but was never issued to a squadron. In 1967 it was returned to BAC and modified to Mk 52 standard. It served first with the South Arabian Federation (South Yemen) Air Force (its current scheme), then the Singapore Air Force until 1980.