What happen to British GA

Some rantings, musings from a South Londoner interested in aviation as a boy. It’s starts with, “when I was a lad…”

My dad, who served in the Navy during WW2 would tell me tales of fishing airman out of the water while on picket duty.
He would build model planes, watch films like Angels 1-5, tell me tales of the Navies `Pussus Spitfire` and buy me Commando comics.

During Biggin Hill week there would be posters on bus stands, reports on TV with Raymond Baxter and Noel Edmunds. The Rothmans team used to fly over
Peckham Town Center (I am sure) to drum up support. What’s more for a poor South London family you could get a bus to Biggin Hill. I suspect also it was not
as expensive.

Once a year in Burgess park there would be an event sponsored by the Duke of Windsor promoting the armed forces, including the RAF.
You could sit in a plane. See models. We even had a demonstration one year by a Wessex Helicopter.

The school would take us on trips to the Imperial War Museum and Hendon.

You could get a tube to Northweald. Buy Arfix kits in newsagents. Battle Action Comics and Johnny Red.

It used to be a big deal when an aircraft, like the Blenheim, took to the skies. It would be on radio and TV.

What kid, especially and specifically a town center kid from a poor family these days, gets access to any of this?

I think I would argue that attitudes to private flying have changed. Although there are still total aviation nutters like myself around, and more are being created every day, most people see private flying as the preserve of the acquisitively affluent, the sort of thing that you do after you have got your expensive house, can afford school fees and run an expensive car.

The problem is that private flying doesn’t meet those requirements. Yes it is expensive, but it is essentially an expensive hobby, a hobby that requires an awful lot of input if the aviator is going to get anything out of it, but the acquisitively affluent don’t strike me as the sort of people who will stick at anything to work it through.

And then there is something else. A private car is essentially a means of all weather transport, not so the private aeroplane. The sort of aeroplane the PPL flies is very much at the mercy of the weather and so it is very much for the hobbyist. The sort of person who takes up flying as a social status thing is very likely to give it up quickly.

Regards

It is correct for the time being, but I know of one method by which the subsidy is being cut and no doubt there will be others.

Meddle – ” It is cheaper for me to fly to Amsterdam (and much further afield) than it is to take the ferry to Orkney or Shetland, and that is with the generous subsidies the SG dish out to ferry service providers.”

If memory serves when I was practically commuting to the Northern Isles in the mid 70s to mid 90s I am sure the islanders received very helpful subsidies to leave and return and far more than the visitor received. Is that correct?

Meddle you imply that just flying around aimlessly makes no sense or at least to you. So be it but I never got over the wonder of flight and never will.

Not necessarily my personal opinion. I was simply making the observation that to most people the experience of flying is no different to being stuck in a fairly uncomfortable bus for a few hours at a time. If this was your only experience of driving (for example) you probably wouldn’t try and buy a vintage roadster and start driving for the sheer thrill of it.

To me saving up all year to take an airline flight to some vacation spot is totally unattractive. Yes the airlines are just mass transit today – rather take the train if possible.

I was in Venice last week. Getting the train is a possibility, but it would either be at ridiculous cost or ridiculous discomfort. We braved a 3.5 hr railway journey from the Slovenian border back down to Venice, and I wouldn’t have wanted to do much more than that in a single stretch. I’ve looked at taking the train from Edinburgh to London as it is one of those classic railway journeys, but flying was cheaper by far. It is cheaper for me to fly to Amsterdam (and much further afield) than it is to take the ferry to Orkney or Shetland, and that is with the generous subsidies the SG dish out to ferry service providers.

To each his own but I like about reading aviation history but have found that airshows are not worth the trouble – how many simulated attacks on pearl harbor does one need to see.

Luckily not an issue here. I quite liked the two Scottish airshows I attended last year, even with the odd bit of redundancy in displays. Perhaps echoing my earlier post it is hard to avoid a parochial and jingoistic atmosphere, laced with petty nationalism, when it comes to historic aviation at times. You don’t really need to look too far beyond the realm of this forum to see that. I’m surprised at the level of flak the one or two US posters in the Historic threads seem to get, even if they are stating simple truths or at least making fairly objective observations, for one thing. How much the UKIP-lite atmosphere of some corners of this forum are hurting GA I really cannot say, but I doubt it is helping any!

I’ve seen video footage of those Pearl Harbour routines and they seem unbelievably crass, verging on dodgy historic revisionism; something to stir the blood of corpulent hotdog munching rednecks perhaps.

Thought I’d add some of the factors I have witnessed, some already mentioned,
1) Lack of exposure to aircraft for the general public. As already mentioned here, reduction in no. different current types at airshows, reduction in the size of the RAF, loss of most of the UK’s aerospace manufacturing industry. The public don’t think we do aircraft here anymore. Sometime ago I mentioned to a non aviation friend that there were approx 10,000 GA aircraft in the country (bit less now) and they were genuinely shocked that it was such a large number. They thought the RAF must have the most !

I was on the tube about 15 years ago when the gentleman sat next to me enquired what I was reading as I thumbed through the latest issue of Flypast. I explained the vintage aviation world to him as best I could. He was intrigued by it all and had no idea such a movement/interest existed.

2) It’s perceived to be for the rich only so people assume there is no point trying even if they are a bit interested.

3) Increased cost of living. The youngsters where I work cannot afford a house let alone an “expensive hobby” like flying. One of the reasons I put my gliding on hold was the cost when I bought my first house. That was 20 years ago when it was nowhere near as bad.

If we take note of the comments about dumbing down of things and say well at least the increased number of graduates means that there should be people who can do exams we have to consider the large debts they come out of the education system with.

4) Increased number of alternative pastimes and the plug and play generation. GA is time consuming and weather dependent. People are now used to instant gratification.

5) PC Flight sims. I held out, but I succumbed when I had children. I know it’s nowhere near the same as the real thing but a lot of us don’t have time for the real thing anymore even if we had the money.

6) Children don’t make model planes anymore (apart from my house where it is compulsory).

7) You can’t pull over to do Facebook/Twitter/Tumblr or text at 2,000 ft.

Meddle you imply that just flying around aimlessly makes no sense or at least to you. So be it but I never got over the wonder of flight and never will. To me saving up all year to take an airline flight to some vacation spot is totally unattractive. Yes the airlines are just mass transit today – rather take the train if possible. To each his own but I like about reading aviation history but have found that airshows are not worth the trouble – how many simulated attacks on pearl harbor does one need to see.

I soled in a J-3 cub in early 1967 – could be rented for $7/hr. Later in 1967 when I was doing dual cross country in a PA18-95(1957 Super Cub) I used the LF receiver to follow the LF beam to the Norfolk LF range that still was in service because some older Navy patrol aircraft need it. If you were on one of four beams you got a steady hum – get off the beam and you got dot dash or the opposite depending if you were right or left. The good old days.

, flying, for most people, is the dirty, uncomfortable and inconvenient aspect of going on holiday. For most people it simply doesn’t look like a hobby any more so than driving a bus does.

Sad but true. I think people would have their eyes opened if they tried a bit of THIS…….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_Kt_CxXxtA (Low flying Piper Cub )

I flew today, in a jet2 737. 😉 In the back of my head I made a point of repeatedly considering this thread. I, like the vast majority of the UK public, only venture on board an aircraft when I am flying somewhere on holiday (or business, I suppose). At no point is the experience enjoyable; from the byzantine security measures, the partial disrobing to placate metal detectors and the faff of clear plastic baggies for liquids to the cramped cabin seating, curly sandwiches and scratch card competitions. At no point are you felt welcome, and the completely unsubtle profiteering on the part of low-rent budget airlines only further enforces this attitude around flying, for most folk. At the end of the day you are lucky if you don’t pick up a respiratory illness from the recycled air, or have a child kicking the back of your seat for hours on end.

To put it another way, imagine if your only experience of driving was to be slung in the back of a Megabus, with the heating cranked and the doors locked. The driver only takes you vaguely near to where you actually want to go, and you have to arrive at the bus station hours before you depart and you are viewed a a potential criminal by the various staff, at least half of whom clearly hold their job, and you, in some degree of contempt. At no point would any of that inspire you to purchase a car and spend your free time driving aimlessly.

As well as the other issues raised in other posts above, flying, for most people, is the dirty, uncomfortable and inconvenient aspect of going on holiday. For most people it simply doesn’t look like a hobby any more so than driving a bus does.

What does it cost to rent an airplane in UK – say a Piper Warrior? About $130/hr wet is going rate where I live. Not likely to be any landing fees. I know it cost maybe 2-3 times more but why? A dream of mind is to visit the UK and rent an airplane. Not being rich it is just a dream.

We’d better get used to this appearing with some frequency in the future.

Sad to read this. Rather echoes the sentiments expressed above….

”Important notice to all members and potential flyers

Over the recent years, a number of factors have taken their toll on Edinburgh Flying Club, making operations increasingly difficult. Whilst the Committee and the instructors have tried hard to keep the club running, and investigate means of maintaining a flying presence at Scotland’s capital city, the committee has reluctantly concluded that flying operations shall cease with effect from 31st March 2016.

Existing members can continue to fly until that date, however we are not accepting new members or students and are no longer offering trial flights.

This will end a period of club flying and PPL training which stretches back over 80 years, and marks a very sad day for the Club and for General Aviation in the UK.

Thank you to everyone who has ever supported the Club or flown with us in the past.

[updated 29/2/2016]

http://www.edinburghflyingclub.co.uk/goodbye.html

Blimey ! The Prodigal Son returns or, Lazarus is risen!

Interesting discussion (for once on this very quiet forum)

Why do I fly? Because I have always wanted to and fulfilling the dream was not a disappointment.

Why do I continue to fly? Because I genuinely cannot think of anything else that gives me such great return on money invested.

When will I give up? When they take my medical, when I die, when I have reached the last fifty quid in my bank account.

That said, at the moment my flying costs are minimal, indeed over the last two years, with the appreciation in value of my aircraft I might well be in profit.

Moggy

Reminds me of my friend in the Liverpool airport Chipmunk syndicate- a lovely aeroplane, good value, but with the introduction of security passes, high fences, and a general air of intimidation, not to mention Hi=Viz jackets, permission required to start engine etc, etc, well, somehow all the fun seemed to go out of it , and he eventually knocked it on the head.

At White Waltham , 12 Miles from Heathrow’s threshold, you can still rise from your chair on the lawn, climb into your non-radio Tiger Moth ( or whatever) and keeping a good look out, line up and depart an your discretion, pretty much as you would have in the 1930’s.

These freedoms must be defended, as the fun is fundamental, and without it, what is left?

Here are two pilots from the UK who cherish their airplane – http://vb.taylorcraft.org/showthread.php?11419-My-aeroplanes-70th-birthday-today

You make a very accurate and well defined point. I’ve always understood that aviation – here in Britain at any rate – is rather inward looking and conservative. All the various aspects of ‘security’ to which you draw attention are an accompaniment of that conservatism.

A club atmosphere, friendliness and hospitality are still to be found at GA airfields but they are rare. I could offer a dozen recent instances of visits to GA airfields where the staff seemingly go out of there way to be unhelpful. I was recently told – by a senior manager – at an airfield I know particularly well that, if all the resident aircraft disappeared tomorrow and GA ceased, how much it would please him !

Maybe all those rather poor experiences can be contradicted by others with more pleasant ones. Pressures to provide airfield re-development for housing means that GA will continue to shrink. The future of GA will, possibly, be shaped by the increasing number and availability of farm strips. They have an attraction not possessed by conventional GA airfields.

This shrinkage is becoming a problem in many countries, and is noticeable even here in New Zealand.
A couple of years ago I wrote an item that was published in a local aviation magazine in which I discussed some of the problems we face. It may also be relevant to the UK scene:

How did you, as an aviation-minded individual, develop you particular interest? I cannot answer for you, but I hung around various airfields as a youngster, soaking up the atmosphere and acquiring the ability to tell a Friendship from a Fletcher. No-one suggested that I was about to sabotage any aircraft or airfield structure, and generally the attitude of those around the place at the time ranged from complete indifference to a sort of friendly tolerance. Try that today at places like Queenstown* or Hamilton and see how far you get. Faced with impenetrable chain-mesh fencing, hovering security guards, numerous signs advising that aviation is dangerous and announcing harsh penalties for entry onto the premises, no budding aviation enthusiast is going to feel welcome or get far.

To my mind, aviation, both as an industry and as a recreational activity, already has a large and growing PR problem. The attitude of the general public ranges from regarding aviation in all its form as an irritating, dangerous and polluting nuisance indulged by wealthy risk-taking playboys to seeing airfields as a necessary but repulsive activity akin to a rubbish tip or a sewage farm. In the early 1930s it was generally held that a town without an airfield was destined to quickly become a municipal backwater. These days any plans to set up a new airfield will instantly cause a storm of hot opposition from all quarters ranging from the Green Party to Federated Farmers.

Yet interest in aviation in all its forms is still out there. Go to an SAA fly-in at a local airstrip or the nearest airshow during the season and you will still see young and old turning up, all keen to look into our world. We need these people to see that aviation is not a black art but as an activity carried out by real people who do not have any superman abilities, who are individuals that have taken the necessary steps to apply time and effort to get where they are today. Perhaps then some of those people may become involved themselves, and hopefully many others will think a little more about that experience before they instantly adopt a hostile attitude to any proposed aviation activity in their area.

To encourage taxi drivers, car park staff, cafe and retail workers at airfields to adopt a suspicious and intolerant attitude towards anyone who is not actually climbing aboard a scheduled flight is in my view short sighted and ultimately fatal to the image of aviation. I can go up the road on a Saturday afternoon and see a yacht club in action. Adults and children assembling, launching, racing and recovering all sorts of water craft. No signs warning of danger or possible prosecution, no security patrols, no ‘keep out stranger’ fencing. Hang around long enough and you will find yourself hauling on a rope, getting your feet wet, or helping time a race. Contrast that with someone arriving at an airfield to whet their aviation interest. No wonder aero clubs are struggling. I know of at least two long-standing aero clubs that have closed after their membership faded away, due, I’m told largely to recent difficulties with security access at their fields. They were no longer pleasant social and relaxing places to be. Losing outside involvement and support from their local community, they died. If Mum and the kids cannot picnic on the grass while they watch Dad go flying, you have a problem. The interest (and the money) will go elsewhere.

The current emphasis on security issues may well provide lucrative employment opportunities, remunerative supply contracts and a sense of personal importance to those involved but, to me, this attitude will ultimately be fatal to aviation in New Zealand as we know it. I have been in countries where any aviation activity at all is as far removed from almost the entire population as Grand Prix racing. I would not like to see this situation develop here. Historically we have had a strong grass-roots sport aviation and GA movement, and adopting a ‘Fortress Aviation’ attitude full of suspicion and fear will in turn engender a similar hostile and intolerant attitude back from the general population and eventually seriously damage aviation at every level.

* Since writing that article, the Queenstown Airport Authority have evicted the aero club and removed any recreational aviation activity from their airfield.

Just my feeling as far as I know. Always thought those who sacrifice in order to fly were some how special – just my opinion. Don’t hear the term elite much. Do hear about the top 1% a lot in this country.