What has this Country come to?.

Confusion with Australian SAS in Vietnam?

Britain sent the SAS to Vietnam?

Regards,

kev35

Utter bullsh*t, pure and simple.
.

Not wishing to argue on this, but why did we send in a unit of SAS into Vietnam to guide USA ground attack aircraft?. Did any other NATO Countries send any troops in?.
Jim.

Lincoln .7

Al. We are there because the USA, as usual asked us nicely if we wanted to go and play with them over there.

Utter bullsh*t, pure and simple.

Asscrackistan was a NATO resolution. UK is part of NATO. It’s as simple as that. No ifs, no buts.

Rather like the shirkers who took military pay for years, then complained about possibility of combat..
“I didn’t sign up for fighting” I recall one reservist saying to CNN in the first Gulf War. 😀

John, What a load of cobblers, when I signed on the dotted line for my 30 yrs, I was fully aware that there were going to be times when my job wouldn’t be a “Bed of roses”.
Any person who signs up to the armed forces who failed to realise he would have to one day bite the bullet and fight for his Country, shouln’t have signed up in the first place.:eek:
Jim.
Lincoln .7

As an aside, regarding the recent deaths of the three British soldiers in the so called green on blue incident. What a colourful way to illustrate the fact that three british soldiers were murdered by their allies.

Kev, I couldn’t agree with that sentiment more.
I also noticed (sadly as ever) that far more ‘important’ news stories preceeded that item on the ‘News Show’, although what could really be more important I’m almost at a loss to say.

As to the state of our funny little island, I think what we are feeling is the apparent lack of leadership in key areas.
Whether it be politicians, the police, the armed forces, the media, even dare I say the banks and financial sector, we seem to have arrived at a point where at best, mediocre people have got to the top.

The other day, at a very local level to me, I saw a man take charge of a situation that required some courage, at a very difficult time for himself and others.
I won’t embarrass him or the others (for he was not alone in stepping up to the plate) by describing the events in detail, but what I saw went a small way towards restoring my faith in human nature.
I’ll also add that I’m substantially proud to be able to call this man (and the others) my friends.
What it did illustrate most I think was that given the chance, the people of this country can be quite magnificent. They have been before and may well have to be again one day.

Andy.

There also needs to be more transparency about where the money is really being spent in general!

As for the cuts, it seems to me as if we allow the bureaucrats to decide what to cut, and they choose to cut frontline services instead of their own useless selves. It’s almost as if the bureaurats are trying to get their own back.

The aid to India issue is what happens when you let a government spend money in a way that makes them look good, rather than how the public at large want it spent.

@Creaking Door
Cutting the military isn’t going to make any difference to the budget problems! Foreign aid is an easy cut to make, but not one that is going to balance the books. To balance the budget we need to look at welfare spending inc pensions and benefits, unproductive bureaucrats in the welfare/education/nhs departments!

@Merlin3945
If you want exports then you’ll have to have good quality products from a well trained workfore, with access to funding for R&D and production, and a reduction as far as possible in the level of taxation and regulation on business.

Al. We are there because the USA, as usual asked us nicely if we wanted to go and play with them over there.
Lincoln .7

I thought it was because the UK is a part of NATO?
Other NATO members are there, so are a few Swedes.

For years much of Europe was more than happy to let the US do the heavy lifting (and paying) for NATO while enjoying the benefits.
Now you complain when there is work to do.

Rather like the shirkers who took military pay for years, then complained about possibility of combat..
“I didn’t sign up for fighting” I recall one reservist saying to CNN in the first Gulf War. 😀

As for your long forgotten British proverb of charity begins at home, a nano-seconds googling reveals that that particular proverb appeared in both Roman and Muslim texts hundreds of years before it appeared in Britain.

I am sure you realise Kev, I was speaking metaphoricaly. However, whoever used to say it, It realy should begin at home, We are now a mere shadow of the great Country we were, and I believe this is because we give away, or take place in other Countries problems first rather than our own.
Lets get our own Bank Balance in the Black first, then we can start to help the poor off other Countries.
Care to stand as an MP for Walsall?. I am certain you could get things sorted quicker than some of those already in Westminster;).
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Before I say anything – please note that I 100% understand where you’re coming from Lincoln 7.

The fact of this story was if Leeds heart hospital was to remain open then the Freeman hospital here in Newcastle – which performs many many transplants of all organs for places as far as South Scotland (witnessing the medical helicopters and ambulances myself) would thus close…

Also, I know it’s shame – of course it is – but speaking from personal experience, I have a sister who has Dilated Cardiomyopathy – basically an 80 year old heart in a 27 year old woman – she was diagnosed 8 years ago and everything I have personally seen with the Freeman hospital made me obviously consider what could happen if they closed it – because I’m pretty certain that if my sister were to have a heart attack and they had to ‘whizz her down the road’ to Leeds- she’d die (god forbid).

I obviously understand that it’s a massive loss – but the staff at the Freeman are so so so brilliant and I without doubt believe that anyone the gets transported to their hospital from the Leeds area – they will be ready to handle it and they will do a fantastic job, because without them – I wouldn’t have a sister now …

Jim.

Read the article. It was announced yesterday. And the three units are not closing as I have already stated. They will not undertake any paediatric heart surgery but will still remain open for the diagnosis and treatment of children with heart problems. it’s not a matter of deciding where a replacement unit should or shouldn’t be. It’s a matter of consolidating the expertise into centres of excellence.

Regards,

kev35

Kev.
As I stated, I only heard about the Hospital in Leeds. As it was on Calendar, (Local TV News) nothing was mentioned regarding the others you mentioned.
After reading the comments from others, there is no quick fix to this problem.

Also, it was “Hidden” in the news by the reduction of our armed forces.very nicely done.
If it’s not part of cutbacks, then why close it?.
Is this another Post Code lottery in the making?.

Where would you suggest these Hospitals are sited for the benifit of those that need them?.

At present, I travel between 5 different Hospitals, One of my Consultants covers two Hospitals in Lincs, and also one in Cambs, I see him, in whichever one he will be at when my appointment is made.I suppose he could have a monthly rota, wherebye he divides his visits into several days instead of one here, one there etc.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

If we stay a hundred years, the day after everyone has left, things will return to how they were before it all kicked off. I have said it before, and will again, it’s our Vietnam now.

Charity, should begin at home, (Long forgotten British proverb)

Jim.

Lincoln .7

Regarding Afghanistan, it is very different to Vietnam. Although you are right in saying that there is nothing to be gained, either for the coalition or for the Afghan people, by our continued involvement in that benighted country. When Afghans have no external enemy to fight they resort to fighting each other. As an aside, regarding the recent deaths of the three British soldiers in the so called green on blue incident. What a colourful way to illustrate the fact that three british soldiers were murdered by their allies.

As for your long forgotten British proverb of charity begins at home, a nano-seconds googling reveals that that particular proverb appeared in both Roman and Muslim texts hundreds of years before it appeared in Britain.

Regards,

kev35

I really don’t get what some of you have said on here already. In this day and age there should be more centres and hospitals opening to care for the sick and elderly not less.

Have we seen the golden age of the NHS come and go……

Should there? Or, due to the advances in medical science, should there be less need for that care? Medicine is a double edged sword. Today, people survive injuries and illnesses because they can, not because they should. The emphasis is placed on survival. Medicine now often defies nature, and the medical profession often places more emphasis on keeping a person alive than trying to provide a better quality of life, albeit shorter.

As for the golden age of the NHS, when treatment was said to be free at the point of delivery, well, that went out with the introduction of prescription charges.

Jim.

You really have no idea of the logistical nightmare you are asking for do you? A centrally placed centre that children can be airlifted to? That could never work. The point you raised was that three paediatric Cardiology centres were to close (which is untrue anyway, they are only closing to surgery) and that there would only be four left (again untrue as there will be seven.) If a better level of surgical care can be given by consolidating the paediatric cardiology surgical service into centres of excellence, then that can only be a good thing. And if you have one central location as you suggest there will be children being admitted on a daily basis both for elective and emergency surgery. You are going to need an awful lot of helicopters. Sorry Jim, but it is a complete nonsense.

Regards,

kev35

I really don’t get what some of you have said on here already. In this day and age there should be more centres and hospitals opening to care for the sick and elderly not less.

No, not more hospitals, or more child heart-operation centres, as the original post asked…

…but an NHS that offers the best outcome for the patients.

The facts of the matter would seem to be that there aren’t enough young children needing this sort of specialist surgery to justify ten hospitals specialising in it. Listen to what some of the medical professionals had to say:

“Chris Ham, chief executive of The King’s Fund health think-tank, said: ‘The Royal Brompton case is emblematic of the challenges faced generally in the NHS over the question of how we can improve outcomes for patients. Surgeons who do more of these procedures get better at it.”

In short, more cardiac operation units isn’t better…..children were dying unnecessarily!

Al. We are there because the USA, as usual asked us nicely if we wanted to go and play with them over there. If we stay a hundred years, the day after everyone has left, things will return to how they were before it all kicked off. I have said it before, and will again, it’s our Vietnam now.

If other Countries want our help, they should help foot the cost, unless OIL is involved, then it’s a different ball game.
Charity, should begin at home, (Long forgotten British proverb)

Jim.

Lincoln .7

The primary role of any government should be to cater for the needs of its own people first, and by that I’m not speaking about economic immigrants or asylum seekers. If we can’t afford to look after our own sick and elderly, then why should the UK taxpayers fork out to aid other countries?

As for UK armed forces numbers, it’s fair that we should only have the services we can afford – but at the same time they shouldn’t be asked to police the world just because of the prestige factor of ‘sitting at the top table’.

Couldn’t the vast sum of money spent on operations in Iraq and Afghanistan have been better spent on improving the UK populations lot? What the hell are we doing there in the first place?

It’s a modern malaise, but the government wants it both ways – much more work for much less investment…

The first duty of the State is and always has been the Defence of the Realm… That is sadly being sold down the river, do you realise how short the Armed Forces are,

Scroll down and count the actual combat ships such as Frigates and Destroyers…. 19! Sounds a few, but then take those that are on refit out of equation etc and you have nothing.

Tony, Your right, it’s like having to expect an apprentice to do the same job as a fully qualified person, they ain;t going to cut it.
I remember seeing HMS Ark Royal a few yrs ago, I was standing near Smeetons old Lighthouse, when she was leaving for blue waters, I had a very wide angle lense on my camera, but still failed to get all of her in, then we had a fairly decent Navy, remember seeing the Annual Fleet Review of yrs ago?, ships in line would be miles long and cover a large area of Sea, now we would be hard pressed to get a single Coxless rower out to display.I think we have gone too far to get back the status we once held in the world.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

You have obviously never driven along the M62 in or between the rush hours..

Wrong. I’ve also driven on the M1, M3, M4, M5, M6, M40 and M69 in heavy traffic, and, if there was a chance of being delayed, found somewhere to stay.

Leeds to Manchester can take 1.5 to 2 hours, and thats only 40 miles. The 20 odd miles from Manchester to Liverpool can take anything over an hour some days, and both these are at times when there isn’t an accident somewhere along the way

And an accident, inside Leeds, could snarl up traffic, and delay you for hours; we can all quote “worst-case scenarios” to prove our case, but the most worrying thing, in all this, is that “they” are trying to ensure the concentration of services, in the best units (and, yes, they do supply beds for parents to stop overnight,) so that children get the best possible chance to survive, and some of you give the impression that you’re totally against this for purely political reasons, caring little for the real sufferer, which is the child.

Jim.

Hospitals make facilities, if a child is that ill then a way is found for at least one parent to stay. The same thing happens with ICU’s, CCU’s and PICU’s. There never has been nor never will be enough high dependency beds to cover every eventuality.

Having fewer paediatric cardiac centres but with a higher level of expertise surely has to be a good thing doesn’t it?

Kev, I couldn’t agree more with what you have said. But like Great Ormond Street, surly they should not have to go cap in hand, and nearly beg the Public for donations etc, These kids can and will make a future for themselves and this Country. I, Like you, saw the Olympic Torch pass through our small town, There were Police from, Cambs, Norfolk, and even the Met Police, I have never seen so many since I was on the front line at Orgreave, during the Miners strike.But there was a general feeling of “Togetherness”, as there was when the Falklands war was on. I do think however, that at this moment in time, if we can afford the Olympic Games, we should be able to build a good centraly placed Hospital for these children to go to, They can be airlifted in, and one parent, as you say, can be with their child, as my signature states…………..
Jim.
Lincoln .7