What is The Fascination of Beckham as a Footballer?????

RE: What is The Fascination of Beckham as a Footballer?????

Notroksinloyt oyventd! The secret’s out…

I remember that “Cantona kick” day very well… It was also a day when the North was hit by horrendous snowstorms. I bought all the papers the following days. I think the Sun (had to be them!) lead with a picture of the poor chap hit by Cantona and a photo of his chest where one was desperately trying to make out the imprint of the vicous gallic madman’s studs. The following day’s edition of another paper dug up the dirt and found out he was a slightly notorious character if I remember righlty… (the fan, not Cantona!!)

We’ve seen what happened with the collapse of ITV digital and the dire financial situation the smaller clubs have landed themselves in.
I hope clubs are coming to their senses. The transfer market was reasonably quiet this year (apart from R Ferdinand’s move to Man Utd). Even Ronaldo’s transfer fee was less than I anticipated (even taking into acount the player exchange deal).
It’s true that the footballers at the top are fairly protected. I do spare a thought for those who missed out on the boom and failed to find a lucrative post playing career and the players in the lower leagues…

RE: What is The Fascination of Beckham as a Footballer?????

Snowman.

Good morning your majesty, hehehe!

The point about Cantona hitting the woman standing nearby comes from a press article I read at the time of the incident, can’t remember which paper it was but it was likely to be the so-called gutter press. I agree, I think for some the bubble will burst as ever more clubs come under more and more financial pressure. However, I think the Beckhams, Keanes and the like will be immune from such problems.

Regards,

kev35

RE: What is The Fascination of Beckham as a Footballer?????

Hi Kev,
I must admit I don’t know where you found that the woman was also hit by Cantona. I have watched the footage many times and although you can see a shocked woman nearby, she is not the one being hit. There was an initial kick landed on the thug, then Cantona fell to the ground, got up and puched the bloke again before being dragged off.
I must admit I used to find it vrey unfair that cleaners, binmen and firemen got paid so little when their job is horrendous when footballer get so much through playing a sport they enjoy. My Dad told me that the reason for this is that, sadly, almost anyone can be a cleaner, and there’s only one Zidane. The club will get a lot of money thanks to the player and is willing to pay the price to acquire his services.
Yes, the amount of money is obscene and the bubble will probably burst at one stage. Some stars are already speaking of having their salaires reduced (not a big sacrifice, granted, but no player ever offered that before).
I believe Keane has worked on that anger thing, but it’s plain to see when you you watch him play that he his a passionate person. Provoked, he will sometimes snap when others won’t. But he sems to keep it on the field of play. I personally have a lot of contempt for wind-up merchants who deliberatly goad a player with a short fuse. Not always easy to walk away for a player who has a quick temper and if that winding-up is noble behaviour, then I am the King of Norway.

RE: What is The Fascination of Beckham as a Footballer?????

What’s wrong with accountants? They contribute as much as any other profession. Apart from lawyers 🙂 Maybe I take a more pragmatic view than you?

I stick by my claim though! Supply and demand…risk and reward…they are all valid. My employer is a partnership. About 55 people work at our office – 2 are partners. The most senior people get about £75,000 tops. The partners do about half as much work (in a better environment, too) and take home an easy £350,000 a year.

So a partner does less work, but gets a lot more. Why? Basically, they put themselves on the line. They take the risk, so they get the reward. Despite all the ambitious SOB’s around, there are not too many people who will do that in the final analysis.

RE: What is The Fascination of Beckham as a Footballer?????

Hi, Mongu.

“People don’t get paid according to their value, they never have done! People are paid according to the time honoured rules of supply and demand.”

Is this why you have chosen accountancy for your career?

“And like it or lump it, the great British public spend more cash on paying footballers (willingly) than they do on firemen (unwillingly).”

No. A certain percentage of the population pay their wages willingly. I have not been to a football match for thirty years, I do not subscribe to a pay tv channel for football coverage nor do I buy footballers biographies, or should that be autobiographies that were written by someone else? We know and to an extent have to accept that people are not paid according to their value. But can you honestly say you like to have your nose rubbed in it by the likes of Keane? Do you not find it obscene that any footballer is getting £20,000 a week and well above for playing 90 minutes of football a week? 95 minutes if you’re a Man Utd. player in a home match? My mom had a wonderful description of the game of football…”22 grown men chasing a blether round a patch of grass.”

Regards,

kev35

RE: What is The Fascination of Beckham as a Footballer?????

Kev, you don’t know how many times I hear that:

“£90,000 a week – that’s more than a fireman/nurse/teacher/policeman……”

What’s your point? You either live in a capitalist society or you don’t. People don’t get paid according to their value, they never have done! People are paid according to the time honoured rules of supply and demand. Keane is paid that much because the supply of Keane-type players is low, therefore the price is pushed up. There are a lot more firemen around than there are Keanes! And like it or lump it, the great British public spend more cash on paying footballers (willingly) than they do on firemen (unwillingly).

RE: What is The Fascination of Beckham as a Footballer?????

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 06-09-02 AT 07:34 PM (GMT)]Snowman.

The point with Cantona is that he didn’t kick a thug in the crowd who had insulted him (badly) but managed to hit the woman next to him. The punishment? A fine, a ban (gave him plenty of time to fulfil sponsorhip contracts etc. etc. Who knows, he may even have had time to write a book?) and a few hours community service teaching kids how to be arrogant, sorry, play football. Now if you’d been in the crowd and assaulted a player do you really believe you’d have got off that lightly?

As for Keane, Ferguson fines him two weeks wages, around £180,000. And we quibble over giving the firemen £30,000 a year? How many lives has Keane saved during his career? I know anyone can snap but some players do it on a regular basis. The wages they are paid may reflect their monetary value to the club but you’d think at £90,000 a week he could afford the odd anger management class. I’m sure he could fit it in during one of his bans,

Regards,

kev35

RE: What is The Fascination of Beckham as a Footballer?????

I think that among footballers, like any othe profession, you find a certain amount of bad eggs. It’s just that they are more epxosed than others. They have a resposnability as a result. When Cantona Kung-fu kicked (he has no formal martial arts training BTW to the best of my knowledge) a fan in Jan 95, it was not a good example to set. More worryingly, it could have resulted in a huge crowd reactions. Let’s not forget though that the fan was a local thug according to newspaper reports of the tile and tha, contrary to what he claimed, what he toild Cantona was stronger than (“It’s an early bath for you Mr Cantona”). He ran down serveral tiers apparently and started gobbing off. The letter “F” seemes to figure prominently among his little tirade as seen on newsreels.

True, footballers are paid handsomely and the abuse comes with the territory. But teh money they get is a reflection of the clubs get out of them.
And who’d be happy to have thousands of morons insulting them at work, asking them whether their wife enjoys anal sex. Should black players meekly turn the other cheek in the face of racial abuse? Some do and let their playing skills fo the talking. I really admire them for that. But there are times when you do snap, when enough is enough. (remember what you said about your neighbours Kev).

There was a very interesting piece by Oliver Holt in the Miror this week about Roy Keane. He pointed out that there was a large amount of hypocrisy among the media and various pundits.

I know we cannot wholeheartedly condone violence but I would still make a distinction between someone who has a feud with a fellow professional and somebody who launches a group attack on some young student.

RE: What is The Fascination of Beckham as a Footballer?????

OK Snowman, point taken. Sorry.

I still don’t see why Ginola and Cantona had such success internationally. I guarantee you that Ginola was simply a scapegoat, the French manager (Houllier?) used him to detract attention from himself. The puzzling thing is why subsequent managers took the same attitude?

RE: What is The Fascination of Beckham as a Footballer?????

It doesn’t matter whether these players are French, English or whatever nationality they may happen to be. What I find beyond belief is the simple fact that because they are footballers with more than a little skill at the game, we have to accept their eccentrities and foibles, just small things like deliberately trying to end another players career, brawling in the streets, using one’s martial arts skills to attack someone in the crowd.

It seems to me that many footballers today have far too much of three commodities…..time, money and over-inflated egos.

Regards,

kev35

RE: What is The Fascination of Beckham as a Footballer?????

Snowman , Mongu,

You’re both right. Both Ginola and Cantona have been kicked out of the French team because of their bad (too honest) caracter.

In order to be drafted in the French selection, you have to match the “values” and shut the f… up.

I’m really glad the those guys could make a such brilliant career in the premier league. I do really believe that we didn’t deserve their talent.

RE: What is The Fascination of Beckham as a Footballer?????

Ginola was blamed as the scapegoat when France failed to qualify for the 94 world cup in their last game, when a long cross-field pass of his went astray.
Cantona was admired for his skills and the fact he made a name for himself in English football. But his outbursts didn’t go dow well with most French people. I also beleive that the rebel in him rubbed the Establishment and confomist media up the wrong way.

Yes, Mongu, I did think gallic twit implied a sweeping generalisation. Would it not shock you if someone said ‘black twit’. What’s the point of mentioning his country of origin or the colour of his skin? It is part of his identity, granted, but to put the adjective together with an insult looks a bit like the adjective is part of the insult. From there, there is a small step to xenophibia.

RE: What is The Fascination of Beckham as a Footballer?????

This actually surprises me.

The common perception in the UK is that the French disowned both Eric Cantona and David Ginola for some mysterious reason.

Hey Snowman, I’m not a Xenophobe. You’re just picking up on me calling Cantona a “gallic twit” aren’t you? If I’d said “black haired twit” would you think I disliked black haired people?

RE: What is The Fascination of Beckham as a Footballer?????

I agree snowman.
Cantona is quite different than his football fellows. This side of his caracter ran him into trouble on this side of the channel.
Maybe you guys in UK did undertsand him better than the Frenchmen.

Anyway, he was a great player and I love his style

RE: What is The Fascination of Beckham as a Footballer?????

Well, Mongu, xenophobia is hardly a sign of broad-mindedness, now, is it?

What you say about the average footballer’s IQ is true, and in the kingom of the bind, the one-eyed man is king. However, I think his views on life in general are very thought-provoking and would be, whatever walk of life he had chosen.
He is a man who doesn’t mince his words and cuts right through the general BS we swim around in. His attitude probably also stems from his Marseille background.
But it is obvious that he thinks quite deeply about life, its meaning, our place in it, our role, what path we have to follow. Even when he talks about football, there is a passion about his opinions which is rare to find among most modern players whose interviews are often little more than a bore-fest. He also has a way of analysing the game and everything around it which clearly shows an intelligent mind at work and also a sensitive and observant one.

He dabbled in the arts, in painting, was interested in poerty. Now I remember reading that to fulfil his potential as a human being, a Samurai had to become proficient not just in warfare, but also other arts. The sign of a great mind is the ability to excell in different forms of human endeavour.

He is a well rounded person, not a saint, but definitley a bright beacon in a sport and indeed a life populated by a lot of sleepwalkers.

RE: What is The Fascination of Beckham as a Footballer?????

I don’t disagree with anything you said, except for the narrow minded bit!

But your implications seem a bit awry. OK, I admit Cantona is a bit cleverer than the average footballer. That much is obvious – when a footballer has a GCSE qualification in woodworking, his team mates call him “The Prof” for god sake!

But that doesn’t necessarily mean that he is anything other than a bit brighter than the average footballer.

I haven’t read any of his work, I’m just judging him based on his Seagull comment. In this isolated context, he does indeed look foolish. Maybe I will reconsider my thoughts if I ever do read more deeply about him.

RE: What is The Fascination of Beckham as a Footballer?????

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 05-09-02 AT 08:41 AM (GMT)]And if you really want something that makes sense, you can always find a meaning to his utterance anyway.

RE: What is The Fascination of Beckham as a Footballer?????

Hmm, nice display of xenophobic narrow-mindedness there.

Cantona is said to have recently declared that he might just as well said that the curtains were orange and the carpet blue. The fact of the matter is that he did not do the predictable thing which was to offer insincere and grovelling apologies.

It seems pointless to urge you to look into this, but Cantona had a lot of very interesting things to say, about football in general and about life. I grant you, you might not be keen on hearing poetry mentioned in the same breath as the Brazil of 70, and people pften mock what they don’t understand. The fact of the matter is that aprt from being a footballer of genius he was also a fascinating person whose search for the meaning of life and whose strong and uncompromising characater made him an unforgetable figure.
I’ll happily let you enjoy the deligts of inane footballers drone on about how “we scored one more goal than them and , you know, at the end of the day, that’s why we won, innit” before going on a bender and getting up to no good, like someone who has more money than sense.

RE: What is The Fascination of Beckham as a Footballer?????

Come on, Snowman. You are defending Cantona against the allegation that he is a Gallic twit.

On what basis? What he said was no doubt confusing and non sensical and there is no evidence (anecdotal or otherwise) that he said it deliberately, to play a game with the media.

This being the case, I stand by the original conclusion, which is that he said something silly which didn’t make sense.

RE: What is The Fascination of Beckham as a Footballer?????

It has to be said though that there was more to Diego than cheating. A recent poll on Channel Four voted his solo effort against England as the best goal or the best football moment ever which goes to show that his skills were not unnoticed even on these shores. Isn’t it also the case that Argentina won in 86 largely thanks to him?

As for George Best, I agree his condition was brought on by himself, but he is aware of it and I think he knows this time that it is his last chance. That’s what he says and I guess he must know it’s true by now.
His skills were absolutely dazzling. Another age, another time, when booze was part of the game. But he was not alone. And more recently, high-profile cases such as Tony Adams and Paul Merson have underlined it was part of the footballing culture. (incidentally, once again, look at the transformation in these two players. Adams in particular, quite apart from his superb achievements on the field, comes across as an admirable man, compassionate it seems and reflective.)

I also remember reading that Best was very, very close to dying when they finally found a donor.
And as for damage brought upon ourselves, I think that this covers a huge amount of hospital cases, from negligence and frankly foolish behaviour to cigarette use, lack of a healthy lifestyle and inadequate diets.

Mongu, I am afraid you typify the reactions of some sections of the British press and some of their readers. If all you know about Cantona’s views on life is the trawlers then you really do not know anything about him. Incidentally, this sentence was in part pretty much some nonsense he spouted to take the mickey out of the media and it seems it worked as they fell for it hook line and sinker.