What is this country coming to ?

Wont be long before every driver in the country has to do a risk assessment, before he or she ventures onto the road.
Why were kids playgrounds altered in such a way as to remove the risk of kids getting injured. My view on this is, if a kid takes a risk and injures him or herself then all well and good, because it will teach them to be more careful. When I say injured I mean a cut or bruise, kids should be toughened up not over protected.
Why? because there will be those kids that will take risks elsewhere such as playing on railway lines which could have serious consequences. Another case in point is the Graffiti artists, they get to some high places which are very risky, from a falling point of view. So all you have done by making a playground to safe, is move the problem elsewhere.
Kids are natural risk takers, let them take risks in a safe environment.
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You mean something like this;

HSE promotes concept of sensible risk management

In an effort to further counter misconception, and in some cases damaging mischief-making in parts of the media, the HSE through its Risk website has launched a set of key principles to define and promote what it means by ‘sensible’ risk management.

The HSC urges people to – ‘focus on real risks, those that cause real harm and suffering, and stop concentrating effort on trivial risks and petty health and safety’.

HSE says Sensible risk management is about:

Ensuring that workers and the public are properly protected;
Providing overall benefit to society by balancing benefits and risks, with a focus on reducing real risks – both those which arise more often and those with serious consequences;
Enabling innovation and learning, not stifling them;
Ensuring that those who create risks manage them responsibly and understand that failure to manage real risks responsibly is likely to lead to robust action; and
Enabling individuals to understand that as well as the right to protection, they also have to exercise responsibility;
but is not about:

Creating a totally risk-free society;
Generating useless paperwork mountains;
Scaring people by exaggerating or publicising trivial risks;
Stopping important recreational and learning activities for individuals where the risks are managed; and
Reducing protection of people from risks that cause real harm and suffering.
Comment:

“I’m sick and tired of hearing that ‘health and safety’ is stopping people doing worthwhile and enjoyable things when at the same time others are suffering real harm and even death as a result of mismanagement at work.

Some of the ‘health and safety’ stories are just myths. There are also some instances where health and safety is used as an excuse to justify unpopular decisions such as closing facilities. But behind many of the stories, there is at least a grain of truth – someone really has made a stupid decision. We’re determined to tackle all 3.

My message is that if you’re using health and safety to stop everyday activities – get a life and let others get on with theirs.” – Chair of the HSC.

“We want to cut red tape and make a real difference to people’s lives. We are already taking action to put the principles into practice. Last month we published, straight-talking guidance on risk management, but we cannot do this alone. That’s why I welcome the broad alliance of support for this initiative – organisations representing employers, workers, insurers, lawyers, volunteers, health and safety professionals and many others who have made positive contributions to our approach.

These principles build on all of this and will hopefully drum home the message that health and safety is not about long forms, back-covering, or stifling initiative. It’s about recognising real risks, tackling them in a balanced way and watching out for each other. It’s about keeping people safe – not stopping their lives.” – HSE Deputy Chief Executive

Unfortunately the media are nothing like as keen to publish stuff like this as they are dumb and misrepresented urban myths on safety

The HSE are trying to intervene and have issued circulars on the abuse of H&S law to justify stupid decisions. However there is such an inertia to things like this it’s like turning one of those 1970’s oil tankers around, takes time. This really needs the employers to act and start employing H&S managers who know their subject rather than just over reacting and taking the soft option by banning anything without actually looking at legal requirements.

Well perhaps the H&S executive should put things straight, by contacting the media, and making this clear to idiots like me. Most people think H&S is over reacting in certain situations, can you blame them for thinking that?
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The HSE are trying to intervene and have issued circulars on the abuse of H&S law to justify stupid decisions. However there is such an inertia to things like this it’s like turning one of those 1970’s oil tankers around, takes time. This really needs the employers to act and start employing H&S managers who know their subject rather than just over reacting and taking the soft option by banning anything without actually looking at legal requirements.

This thread is a good example of several different issues being confused with the result that people are blaming certain regulations for stuff that has nothing to do with those regulations.
On a wider note, one of the reasons i still enjoy living in the UK is that we tend to be a reasonably tolerant and open minded people with a live and let live attitude to most things, to me that makes the shambolic roads, mediocre public transport, government incompetence in how they spend our money etc. bearable as I enjoy the freedom we have here. I can say I believe religeon is a load of hocus pocus (which I do) just as anybody is free to believe in any religeon, we can disagree over politics, the arts and anything else. However, sometimes I feel the tabloid press, egged on by the sort of dimmock cretins who can’t differentiate between paedophile and paediatrician, are trying to take the country back to the dark ages. Sad.

If it’s true what you say about misinterpretation of H&S law, why doesn’t the government step in and sort this mess out. The newspapers quite clearly show, that people are totally confused by H&S law. You always here about this or that being banned for H&S reasons, newspapers surely can’t be making this up.
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And that is an excellent example of somebody in your safety department who has not bothered reading HSE guidelines or is too lazy too, so has brought in blanket measures and blamed safety legislation. This is exactly the sort of stuff getting safety a bad name, but it is NOT health and safety law or the HSE responsible for stuff like that. I work in possibly the most tightly regulated industry in the UK and soldering wires in an office would be classed as Category 2 work not needing a permit or hot work certificate as it is core skills work in a non hazardous area. If you are angry, get angry with your employer or whoever manages this client, not the HSE.

Well I can see your point of view on H&S. Regarding the electricity sub station, I do think though, that the electricity company are worried about getting sued, in case a youngster gets hurt at that sub station. So they go mad with the warning signs, using H&S as their defence against being sued. Seems logical to me, in this age of litigation.;)
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This thread is a good example of several different issues being confused with the result that people are blaming certain regulations for stuff that has nothing to do with those regulations.
On a wider note, one of the reasons i still enjoy living in the UK is that we tend to be a reasonably tolerant and open minded people with a live and let live attitude to most things, to me that makes the shambolic roads, mediocre public transport, government incompetence in how they spend our money etc. bearable as I enjoy the freedom we have here. I can say I believe religeon is a load of hocus pocus (which I do) just as anybody is free to believe in any religeon, we can disagree over politics, the arts and anything else. However, sometimes I feel the tabloid press, egged on by the sort of dimmock cretins who can’t differentiate between paedophile and paediatrician, are trying to take the country back to the dark ages. Sad.

A few days ago at work, I did some soldering in an office building. Before I started, I was required to fill out a hot works document.The area where I had to work was duly cordoned off, and a large ” DANGER ” warning sign was put up next to me. Finally 2 Fire extinguishers were placed in my vicinity, as a precaution. Just because I had to solder a few plug connectors onto some wires.

I can remember the days, when none of this would have been required, all this health and safety paraphernalia, certainly made me feel stressed. 😀 😀
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And that is an excellent example of somebody in your safety department who has not bothered reading HSE guidelines or is too lazy too, so has brought in blanket measures and blamed safety legislation. This is exactly the sort of stuff getting safety a bad name, but it is NOT health and safety law or the HSE responsible for stuff like that. I work in possibly the most tightly regulated industry in the UK and soldering wires in an office would be classed as Category 2 work not needing a permit or hot work certificate as it is core skills work in a non hazardous area. If you are angry, get angry with your employer or whoever manages this client, not the HSE.

That’s your point of view and you are of course entitled to it however these people had committed crime thus ending up in prison in the first place, there is no such thing as a “victimless crime” someone somewhere will have suffered as a result of crimes committed by these smackheads. These victims also had a right to be “treated with decency” and a right to not end up as a victim of crime.

I don’t give a **** if these smackheads have a point or not, if a judge decides under British law that they have been the victims of wrongdoing a simple apology should be enough there needs to be a law that stops crinmails getting compensation in cases like this, an apology and new rules to ensure a similar incident does not happen again should be more than enough.

Whatever next alcoholic prisoners demanding to be provided with drink and gamboling addicts demanding trips to the bookies, I can just see the above mentioned groups have a field day in court when said requests are refused, or worse still I can see the prison service allowing the requests to prevent more court cases and bad press etc.

At the end of the day I will never have any sympathy for prisoners and there rights in the last 2 years I have been the victim of the following crimes

Theft (by a smackhead as it happens)
Id fraud (by someone who apart from going bankrupt went unpunished apart from a few sessions with a psychiatrist)

Oh and if that aint enough my girlfriend at the time and myself were witnesses to a very nasty armed robbery this summer and the stress and rows that followed caused us to split up, so please don’t wine on about criminals rights cause I just done care lock em up and make them suffer that’s what I say.

I have to say that I agree with you……..I’ve lost count of the times that I have been beaten senseless by the local smackheads and, unfortunately, now wish things upon them that not even they could imagine in their worst nightmares. Personally, if I had my way I’d shoot the lot of them and put them out of MY misery!!!!!!

Unfortunately, the way the British legal system works is that it protects the criminals from the consequences of their actions (including traumatised victims and their families) but, in doing so, often find themselves disregarding the rights of the victims who then end up being neglected.

I hate smackheads!!!!!!! I would be glad if they suffered in prison……….I mean REALLY suffered!!!!!!!!

I’m sorry about the way I feel but I can’t help it!!!!!!!

Mark.

Hot works…..

A few days ago at work, I did some soldering in an office building. Before I started, I was required to fill out a hot works document.The area where I had to work was duly cordoned off, and a large ” DANGER ” warning sign was put up next to me. Finally 2 Fire extinguishers were placed in my vicinity, as a precaution. Just because I had to solder a few plug connectors onto some wires.

I can remember the days, when none of this would have been required, all this health and safety paraphernalia, certainly made me feel stressed. 😀 😀
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HEALTH AND SAFETY MYTHS – THE TRUTH BEHIND THE HEADLINES

Well done Turbina for your post!

The half truths and just plain lies printed to sell papers are swallowed by many accepting that if it’s in the papers it must be true! If you must read the say The Sun or Mail (well put together rags I must say :diablo: ) then just get a grip and think there might be a bit more to a story than at first glance! 😀

HEALTH AND SAFETY MYTHS – THE TRUTH BEHIND THE HEADLINES
A TUC REPORT
October 2006
Health and safety often gets a bad press. We read about safety inspectors banning ladders or games of conkers and firms being put out of business because of health and safety regulations. Reading some of these stories you might be forgiven for wondering how anything actually gets done given the raft of rules and regulations that seem to govern health and safety.
This short report looks at the truth behind some of these stories.
Background
Health and safety is regulated through the Health and Safety at Work Act, a short and simple piece of legislation dating from 1974, which states that employers have a duty to secure the health, safety and welfare of people at work and also to protect the public from risks arising out of work activity.
The Act also allows the government to make regulations to help achieve this. Some of these regulations are general and cover all workplaces, such as the need for a risk assessment, others are specific to a sector, such as construction or the chemical industry. The Health and Safety at Work Act, and regulations made under it, are enforced by the Health and Safety Executive and local authorities.
Truths or urban myths
The TUC, which has for over 100 years been a champion of strong and practical health and safety regulation has looked at some of the stories and tried to track down the truth behind them. It found that some are just not true, and many others are misrepresentations of the truth.
This does not mean that every health and safety story we read about is made up. In some cases regulations have been wrongly interpreted. However that is different from saying that health and safety regulations, or their enforcement have been wrong. In none of the stories we looked at did we find that was the case. In other examples employers have used health and safety as an excuse for not doing something which they did not want to do anyway, or as an excuse for saving money. There were also cases where the standard requirements of an insurance policy are unsuitable for an event, and rather than have dialogue between the organiser and insurer, the organiser has gone straight to the local press.
Ten myths
All these stories have appeared in the press in the past couple of years.
Myth 1
Health and safety regulations now ban the use of ladders.
Truth
This story reappears regularly. In fact there is no ban on ladders so long as they are used safely. There are regulations aimed at ensuring that people do use ladders safely. This is to reduce the number of workers seriously injured or killed falling off ladders every year. Each year an average 13 workers die this way and 12,000 are seriously injured. However there is no ban on ladders so long as they are secured and used appropriately.
Myth 2
School children are not allowed to use cardboard egg boxes in craft lessons on health and safety grounds.
Truth
This probably related to a decision by East Sussex County Council to issue a circular indicating that there were in fact no problems in using both egg boxes and toilet rolls as long as they were clean looking. This is standard guidance within education and makes perfect sense.
Myth 3
Workplaces are ‘risk averse’ and employers are overly cautious because of the fear of health and safety regulations.
Truth
There is no evidence that employers are being ‘risk averse’. The fact that over a million workers get injured every year and 25,000 people are forced to give up work because of injury or illness caused by work shows that employers are very much taking risks with their workers health. Most of these injuries could have been avoided if employers had implemented proper safety procedures, but research has shown that around half of employers have not even done a simple risk assessment (a legal requirement).
Myth 4
Firemen’s poles have been banned on health and safety grounds
Truth
This seems to have arisen from a case in Devon where it was reported that, to avoid the risk of injury when sliding down poles, a new fire station had not been equipped with a traditional pole. The truth was that the reason the fire station did not have a pole was because of space restrictions. There are no regulations banning the use of poles in fire stations.
Myth 5
There are now more regulations and red tape than ever.
Truth
In actual fact there were more than twice as many health and safety regulations and laws 35 years ago than there are now. The legislation that remains is now generally simpler and easier to understand.
Myth 6
A local authority ordered the removal of St Georges’ flags from outside shops on safety grounds.
Truth
This story originated in Liverpool, however Liverpool council did not ban St Georges’ flags or ask anyone to remove them. It did require one shopkeeper to properly secure flags after one fell onto the windscreen of a car causing an accident.
Myth 7
Small businesses are being strangled by over-inspection and over-regulation
Truth
The average small business is likely to be visited by a health and safety inspector around about once every 20 years. Even larger businesses, except for high hazards ones, are visited on average every 10 years. Small businesses are even exempted from some regulations. For instance while every employer has to do a risk assessment on their staff, if a business has less than 5 employees it does not even have to write the assessment down or record it. Hardly a major burden.
Myth 8
Trapeze artists will be forced to wear hard hats.
Truth
This story has appeared several times over the past few years. Sometimes the ban is blamed on European legislation, other times on the new Work at Height Regulations. The claim is that these regulations will require trapeze artists to wear hard hats. This is of course complete nonsense. The reason that hard hats are worn is to prevent people being hit from falling objects. Not to protect you if you fall. They are completely inappropriate for trapeze artists and there are no regulations, or plans for any regulations, to introduce them. A related story is that the Work at Height Regulations would mean that safety signs would have to be erected on the side of Snowdon. Again there is no truth in this.
Myth 9
Health and safety regulations have fuelled a huge rise in compensation claims
Truth
The number of civil claims for compensation against employers as a result of accidents has fallen every year for the last 5 years. In fact despite the introduction of ‘no win – no fee’ claims the total cost of compensation cases in Britain has remained, in real terms, static since 1989. Britain also pays out much less in civil compensation, as a proportion of its economy, than any other major European country apart from Denmark, and a third that of the USA.
Myth 10
A church had to spend £1,300 to change their light bulbs because of health and safety regulations.
Truth
The church in question was St Benet’s in Norfolk. It was reported that because of new health and safety regulations electricians now had to put up scaffolding every time they wanted to change a bulb. In actual fact the electricians were not just changing light bulbs but replacing all the light fittings. The contractor said that the use of scaffolding was standard practice and nothing to do with any new regulations.
Half-truths
These are stories where a story is based on an actual event but the actual circumstances are completely different from what was reported.
Half-truth
Local councils have banned hanging baskets on health and safety grounds.
Truth
This probably relates to Bury St Edmunds where the borough did briefly remove hanging baskets because of concerns that some lampposts were unstable. As soon as they had checked the lampposts the hanging baskets were replaced. There are still hanging baskets in Bury St Edmunds.
Half-truth
Schools have banned conkers
Truth
This story, more than any other epitomises the trivialisation of health and safety. In fact two schools are known to have asked children not to bring conkers in on the advice of doctors as children had severe nut allergies. In addition one primary school head teacher brought in safety goggles for his pupils to play conkers. However he stated that the reason behind this was that he wanted to make a statement over the increased fear of litigation. This point seems to have been lost on the media.
Half-truth
During the Battle of Trafalgar commemoration the actor playing Nelson had to wear a life jacket over his costume.
Truth
During an event on the Thames to mark the bi centenary of the Battle of Trafalgar an actor was dressed as Nelson. To get to the event he was transported using an RNLI lifeboat. This was a modern lifeboat and the RNLI asked him to wear a lifejacket during the trip. Given that he was in an RNLI lifeboat, and not HMS Victory, at the time it is unlikely that the lifejacket would have looked out of place.
Half-truth
A fancy dress festival in Wales was cancelled because the organisers were told they would have to employ an extra 60 stewards on health and safety grounds.
Truth
This relates to the Lleni fancy dress festival in Powys where the organisers simply misunderstood the regulations. There is no health and safety requirement for the organisers for events such as this to employ stewards. They could quite easily have used volunteers as they had in the past.
…….and one other truth
That is that Britain is a better and safer place because of health and safety regulation. Since the Health and safety at Work Act was introduced the number of deaths caused by work have fallen by over 75%. The rate of fatalities in now one of the lowest in the world, and much of that is because of strong, sensible regulations.
Finally
The long term effect of these myths being circulated is that the ‘brand’ of health and safety gets diminished. People see ‘health and safety’ as stupid rules and barriers, rather than as a framework for protecting those most vulnerable in society. People begin to identify the Health and Safety Executive with draconian regulations, despite the fact that none of the stories the TUC looked at involved any action by them, and they remain one of the bodies most respected by those who deal with them. In fact 89% of all employers who have had contact with the HSE have seen it as a ‘helpful’ organisation.
We must not be complacent. Since the passing of the Health and Work Act we have seen disasters such as Piper Alpha, the Herald of Free Enterprise and Morecambe Bay. Occupational Cancers still kill between 10 and 20,000 people every year and around 2 million people suffer from ill-health at work. We need to ensure that health risks are identified and dealt with so that workers and the public are protected. That is what health and safety is really about.
Briefing document (1,900 words) issued 22 Oct 2006

In this forum, insults aimed specifically at other members are not acceptable in any way, shape or form. That’s why I deleted your posting.

Strongly-held opinions, so long as there’s no breach of the Code Of Conduct set out by the site owners as a condition for posting your opinions on their site, are always acceptable.

No-one’s asking you to apologise to the member you insulted, (although I like to think that any decent person would do that of their own accord) just to bear the above in mind in the future.

OK?

GA

Moocher: if you can’t make your point without insulting others, then you’ve lost the argument by default.

In this forum we show respect for those whose opinions differ from our own, even when we disagree strongly.

Please bear this in mind in the future.

Thanks

GA

I assume the truth hurts, more people than i thought, there are more people think the way i do think the way you do, it wan’t insulting it was passionate statement.
I won’t appologise, I stand by everything I said, more normal tax paying hard working people need to stand up against these “Tree hugging faggots” who seem to think, a pat on the back and a few grand will make things better. A good hard **** kicking, if that doesn’t work, a lead injection behind the left ear will suffice. Get these scumbags of the planet, I’m sick of wastingmy money on them.

mick eliis happy again

You appear to subscribe to the myth that everyone in prison is a hardened criminal who will, whatever happens to them, revert to a life of crime once released. True of some, but certainly not true of everyone behind bars. But you can make it true, by treating them all as if it is.

The large amount of prisoners in jail, is a reflection of what is wrong with this country . Yes I agree, not all prisoners are beyond hope. However, perhaps Governments should sort out the problems that lead to criminal behavior, such as poor education, problem families etc etc. Discipline at school is now lacking, so kids that would benefit from it don’t get it. Trendy leftist thinking in schools has damaged this country forever.
Although this is slightly off topic, it needs to be said that because Britain no longer has a large export market, there are no jobs for the less educated person anymore. In my opinion what we are witnessing these days, is the end of a golden era for Britain, there are going to be some painful times ahead. A lot of jobs that might employ the less educated kids, are now being taken by migrant workers. I won’t go into why that is, but I think we all know why. So kids with no hope of a decent job, may well turn to crime and end up in Prison.
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I’d rather spare his blushes, Kev.

Back on-topic, please. 🙂

GA

Grey Area.

Please reinstate Moocher’s post as it was. His eloquence in putting his point across deserves to be seen by a wider audience.

Regards,

kev35

Moderator Message

Moocher: if you can’t make your point without insulting others, then you’ve lost the argument by default.

In this forum we show respect for those whose opinions differ from our own, even when we disagree strongly.

Please bear this in mind in the future.

Thanks

GA

Stop them offending again? don’t make me laugh. 😀 😀 😀
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You appear to subscribe to the myth that everyone in prison is a hardened criminal who will, whatever happens to them, revert to a life of crime once released. True of some, but certainly not true of everyone behind bars. But you can make it true, by treating them all as if it is.

Some of ’em are beyond rehabilitation. Many are not. The average prisoner is thick as ****, poorly educated, & has never found out how to earn respect & money any way except by crime. Separate the real criminals from the sad losers, teach the latter to read & write & add up properly, get them into a structured existence with punishments & rewards – and the latter are essential, & small ones should be given just for not earning punishment – and you’ll increase the proportion who don’t reoffend. Lock ’em all up with career criminals, with nothing to do except sit in their cells all day, & you turn those sad gits into better-trained, better-motivated (because they’ve seen that the bad boys are the top dogs inside, & they want to emulate them) crims.

Junkies nicking to support their habits are 99% members of the sad loser fraternity, rather than the hardened criminal ilk. They can’t all be turned round, but every one rehabilitated is one less burden on the state, & one less threat to society when they’re out. It’s cheaper to try to fix as many as possible, even with a high failure rate, than write them off. Nothing to do with bleeding-heart liberal “love the criminal” crap, just pragmatic self-interest. My taxes maintain the prison system, pay policemen, etc, & I live out there in the world these people are eventually released into.

Point 1 – They have no rights, they gave those up when they broke the law.
…
angry mick

So next time you do 31 in a 30 limit you lose all your rights? Great principle. Can you please post your full name, so I know who not to vote for if you ever go into politics?