What is wrong with people?

Yet that very same Skyraider has a paintjob celebrating the death of a MiG-17 pilot. How come that’s not tasteless?

If that is tastless…then the nose art of PA474 …a ghost holding a bomb threatning Germany (and everything that isn’t something innocuous like “Sally B”) and all kill markings should be censored.
Silly.

If you really believe that, then suggest all warbirds should be melted down ASAP.
After all, they were designed to kill.

Yet that very same Skyraider has a paintjob celebrating the death of a MiG-17 pilot. How come that’s not tasteless?

Sorry Arthur,

But that aircraft never carried any Mig17 Kill on it not while Jack owned and never when Harry owned. I spent quite allot of time around that aircraft in the 80s.

I think in answer to the original question, a certain number of people are stone cold heartless and a bit sick in the head, while a much larger number have never been affected by the consequences of something like this taking place so genuinely don’t realise how heartbreaking it must be for those who have.

My day job is connected to the media and I believe an unusually large number of the first category work in that field. Essentially, they are doing what this ebayer is doing – making money out of images of death.

Only this morning, big colour pictures of the crashed Luscombe in several of the dailies. The other example that springs to mind is the gallery of pictures and film of the Shoreham Hurricane crash on the website of a local newspaper.

I went to a talk by Guardian cartoonist Steve Bell once, and he referred to some of the more graphic and grisly pictures of the first Gulf War (those who have seen them will know which pics I am talking about) that were splashed all over the front pages as ‘pornography’. I cannot but agree.

The incident that made me feel sick to the stomach came at an early Greenham Common airshow.

As one pilot was flying a low-level aerobatic display, I heard a videocamera user who was filming the routine mutter “Go on you b*****d – crash – crash”.

What made it worse was the sounds of assent from some nearby photographers, such as “Yeah, go on – crash”.

I suspect they were members of the general public rather than air enthusiasts, but the incident was still a disturbing one.

Mercurius Cantabrigiensis

In my younger days I used to skydive and at Sibson airfield we used to get the vulture squad with their picnics waiting for someone to go in. I heard something similar from a video camera to***r who commented “no failures….. sh*t”.

crash pics

Personally for me a crash pic recent or 60+ years old is not a big deal for me but one in which you can SEE The crew members clearly then that is a different story and should not be published.
Just my thoughts….

In this case the crash was not that long ago and the picture shows the SPAD upturned with Harry Doan probably still trapped inside (he reportedly didn’t die instantly). I wont go into the story of how that apparently happened. This was an accident and not the result of war so doesn’t have such “historic” significance. I only met him once but he seemed a really nice and helpful guy. The sensitivity around the death remains current for his relatives etc.
Tim[/QUOTE]

Fair enough but does this mean that there are no relatives from photos taken before this one? and I have seen alot of historic crash photos that were not caused by air combat.
I am not trying belittle the loss of a pilot (or anybody else) as any loss is sensitive to the people concerned wether it was 10 years ago or 60.

phill

You’ll mean this one then…incredible footage…and no fatalities!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aLRNQrfIXc

With regard to the eBay item I tend to side with Peter on this one; there is no real reason I can see to sell this photo apart from profit. It is a difficult one, and down to personal feeling really but that’s the way I see it.

Thats the one!! and it was a TA-4! – that explains why i couldn’t find it it!! -thanks CD!

Very sadly “car crash TV” has been going on for ages and unfortunately, it seems to attract an audience. Look at how many times Donald Campbell’s Bluebird crash has been wheeled out on the box. There are also many land speed record incidents which seem to be replayed ad nauseum – some are fatal, some aren’t. Also, you only have to look at Youbend to see how many of these very unfortunate episodes are posted up.

Do I go looking for them? Er, no. Unfortunately, many seem to be “linked”, either by aircraft type, era, etc and are not very explanatory and sometimes we see them by accident.

Sadly however, there ARE people out there who DO seem to want to see either a catastrophic accident OR its aftermath.

Not me though.

Chris

Wasn’t there a news clip back in the 60’s (??) when a kite slid off a carrier deck, the aircraft floated, but the pilot couldn’t release the canopy or his seat wouldn’t fire, that image lives with me forever

That was the COs (Russell) Scimitar F.1 during the 803 Squadrons first carrier embarkment, on HMS Victorious, Sept ’58
It is a very hard clip to watch through due to its apparent serenity and hopelessness, and like you John, a sequence that remains in the mind.

off topic

Not too worried about straying off topic on this..
Years ago we had a fatal sea fury crash which happened in front of the piolts son, we were standing at the crowd line when it happened and everyon was shouting to the crash crews to get a move on then once they announced the show was cancelled one guy said he wanted a refund! My dad was close to punching him over that comment but instead told him off and said a boy has just witnessed his dad die in a crash and you want a refund!!:mad: 😡 😡

The incident that made me feel sick to the stomach came at an early Greenham Common airshow.

As one pilot was flying a low-level aerobatic display, I heard a videocamera user who was filming the routine mutter “Go on you b*****d – crash – crash”.

What made it worse was the sounds of assent from some nearby photographers, such as “Yeah, go on – crash”.

I suspect they were members of the general public rather than air enthusiasts, but the incident was still a disturbing one.

Mercurius Cantabrigiensis

Wasn’t there a news clip back in the 60’s (??) when a kite slid off a carrier deck, the aircraft floated, but the pilot couldn’t release the canopy or his seat wouldn’t fire, that image lives with me forever

If this shot was from Vietnam then would anyone question this? I find it rather two faced that everybody kicks off when its a preserved aircraft but if its a WWII pic then they want to know every detail wether somebody died or not!
I feel its up to the individual, if there wasnt a market for this material then it wouldnt sell.

Phill

www.outflankeduk.com – my website

I think your last sentence sums up the reality; however your comment of “two faced” about this particular pic is not really fair IMHO. There are undoubtedly legitimate reasons why journalists and historians use pictures of conflicts and their results as sources. It is also natural that the loved ones, relatives and friends of anyone killed will be repulsed by trading of pictures in which those killed are involved or depicted.

In this case the crash was not that long ago and the picture shows the SPAD upturned with Harry Doan probably still trapped inside (he reportedly didn’t die instantly). I wont go into the story of how that apparently happened. This was an accident and not the result of war so doesn’t have such “historic” significance. I only met him once but he seemed a really nice and helpful guy. The sensitivity around the death remains current for his relatives etc.

I can’t imagine that the relatives of troops killed recently in Iraq would be comfortable if individuals started selling pics on the open market of damaged armoured vehicles with their dead loved ones still inside. As you rightly say it’s down to individuals, but that doesn’t stop those affected from wishing it didn’t happen and voicing that feeling.

Tim

If this shot was from Vietnam then would anyone question this? I find it rather two faced that everybody kicks off when its a preserved aircraft but if its a WWII pic then they want to know every detail wether somebody died or not!
I feel its up to the individual, if there wasnt a market for this material then it wouldnt sell.

Phill

www.outflankeduk.com – my website

BBC news website currently running a report on the Turbo Beaver crash at Headcorn complete with photo of close up of cockpit area where the pilot died,so it seems to be accepted news practice but to avoid showing the body.

Yet that very same Skyraider has a paintjob celebrating the death of a MiG-17 pilot. How come that’s not tasteless?

It’s no longer available on E-Bay, so I assume it was pulled?

It’s no longer on ebay?

If it is pulled then that is fine but in the pic for sale, it was a fatal accident and comments on another site were that it clearly showed the unfortunate pilot underneath the aircraft.:eek:

I don’t think this should have been put on the open market as there seems to be activity around the cockpit area.

Harry Doan died in this accident.

I saw a similar tasteless photo of PV202s cockpit area post-crash at Goodwood.
It was published in colour in the Sunday Times.

…there was a very unsual video on the other other night showing a test F-18 being ‘chased’ by an A-4 during bomb dropping tests- the A-4 got too close and the bomb took its port wing off!

You’ll mean this one then…incredible footage…and no fatalities!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aLRNQrfIXc

With regard to the eBay item I tend to side with Peter on this one; there is no real reason I can see to sell this photo apart from profit. It is a difficult one, and down to personal feeling really but that’s the way I see it.