What was D-Day all about?

Ok guys here are the numbers for aircraft produced each year
1942 1943 1944 1945
UK 23,600 26,262 26,461 12,070
US 47,836 85,898 96,318 46,001
USSR 25,436 34,900 40,300 20,900
Germany 15,409 24,807 40,593 7,540
Japan 5,008 16,693 28,180 8,263

Now you can see what a huge difference the Allies had over Germany, and the huge amount of aircraft the US was producing compared to everyone else.
TTP

Heres one number I just found, At the end of 1944 the Famous B-24 plant at Willow Run michigan was producing a B-24 bomber every 63 minutes!!!!! and there were 5 other plants in the US building B-24 Bombers……This gives you an idea of the power of US industry….and how the Germans could have never competed or won! You forget the US was fighting the Japanese at the same time!!! Imagine how many fighters we could have built if we needed if we were completeing an entire B-24 every 63 minutes in one factory!!
TTP

Cheguvera,Kev35

Take a look at the industrail output of the US vs Germany towards the 1944/45 timeframe. First of all the US was untouchable as far as German attacks, second the US and Britain were destroying German Industry every day from 1943 on….I can’t quote exact numbers but the US in one month produced 44,000 aircraft in one month!!
Just read a book about high-tech versus low-tech weaponry..a chapter was about the Me-262 and how advanced they were, but the German pilots stated that everytime they flew it there was a 15 to one fight against Mustangs, they admitted that there was no way they could shoot down that many each day, and by 1946 they would have been facing P-80’s in the same ratios…all the while B-29s would have been reducing Germany to an Atomic wasteland…
Cheguvera, the German effort to develope an Atomic weapon was unsucessful, not because they attacked Russia, it was mostly due to them going down the wrong road as far as using Heavy water..also another reason was many Jewish scientists fled nazi Germany and ended up helping the Allies develope the A-Bomb….
By the end of WWII the US Navy had over 100 aircraft carriers in the Pacific fighting 2 or 3 Japanese carriers…the numbers were totally overwhelming on all fronts by 1945! I’ll try to get some accurate numbers for you.
TTP

D-Day was about courage, bravery, endurance, fear, loathing, duty, honour, hatred, desire, passion, compassion, liberation, cruelty, strength, weakness, tears, sacrifice, laughter, blood and guts, humanity and inhumanity. It saw the best and the worst of mankind encapsulated in a day.

But it helped to give us what we have today. We all have different viewpoints. That’s as it should be. I don’t subscribe to TTP’s viewpoint that ‘America’s industrial might would have defeated the German’s easily.’ It was men not machinery that did it. The Duplex drive tanks that never got ashore were to have been a big help on the American beaches but they failed. It was men with Bangalore torpedoes, M-1 Carbines and an amazing amount of courage that did it.

For me, D-day, like the rest of the war, is about the people.

Regards,

kev35

I have just found this photo, I expect it is Crown Copyright but I am sure if anyone owns this copyright they will not mind this one being posted tonight.

My father Joe Cooper Fitter IIE RAF Tarrant Rushton gave me a copy of this photo shortly before he passed on 9 years ago, he was very proud to have been part of this operation.

I know not all the Halifax and Horsa gliders are shown but I recall my father telling me there was more than 60 of each, to me this is what D-Day is all about, it involves one airfield this is the enormity of Operation Overlord!

Edited to say I have found the copyright owner ‘The Imperial War Museum’ it is on the photo!

All participants of freeing Europe need to be recognised, it was like a jigsaw, you couldn’t finish the puzzle without all the pieces being there.

And we are now trying to be at peace. Looks like it’s a lot harder than going to war.

History is a jigsaw. Some pieces are missing, some are broken, some have been stolen by bad people, and it’s not up to someone else to put it together for you. You have to make sense of what history you think is important to you.

My father is a history teacher in Yorkshire. He has taught around ‘Memphis Belle’ (using both movies, and it’s national curriculum) and The Wild West (likewise.) It’s up to schools to do a certain ammount – but it’s up to YOU to figure out the most of it. Frankly, I wouldn’t trust anyone else to do it for me, would you?

Cheers

PS (I study historiography – hence the above)

Eric Margolis irritates me in some of his points: 450.000 killed Japanese (32%)? Wasn’t the Soviets VERY late in opening an Eastern Front? Who the H*** is saying that Schröder is celebrating? Maybe he came to show his respect to the dead – all of them! A fine gesture, that he (the Germans) was invited this time. Certainly the Soviets suffered huge losses and was crucial in winning the war. And yes, there are countless “What if…” possibilities. (What if Germany and USSR had remained “friends” after they split Poland in 1939? What if Stalin hadn’t killed all his generals before the war? etc. etc.)That we honour the D-day losses doesn’t mean we forget the Russian sufferings.
Best regards

We could speculate all day about the “what ifs” of WW2.

What if Hitler had never declared war on the USA after Pearl Harbor? He didn’t have to.

Cheguvera,

Your really stretching it! If you get a chance read a book called “The making of the Atomic Bomb” by Richard Rhodes, It is a fascinating and very interesting book…The Germans were activley trying to develope an Atomic weapon, they just were looking in the wrong places scientifically….Undoubtably if Hitler hadn’t invaded Russia the war would have lasted longer but the Allies would have still won…….By 1946 it would have been B-29’s leveling Germany, and Meteors and P-80’s vs Me 262’s either way the Germans could not defeat US production….in my opinion.
TTP

Lets stretch it a bit more; We all know of the Bohr and Hagberg meeting. Germans were actively trying upto a point in time. They did’nt pursue it all the way as zeolously as did the americaine, for various reason. Lack of resource could be one. The reason why I speculate was the enormous drain on resources the Russian misadventure turned out to be, we may not know the full extent of it nor we would of the lost potential of Germany.

American Manufacturing base was huge, no doubt. How would that have manifested into Allies eventually winning the war, I am not sure.
From the same token, how about if Hitler had allocated the more resources to North Africa and Middle East, perhaps the whole British control of oil would have been wrested.

Laslty, it would have been Me-262s v. P-51s, not P-80s.

All this week in the ‘Daily Mail’ it has been reproducing its 1944 editions from D-Day onwards. It is remarkable the amount of information they were allowed to give even so few days after the event. There are several mentions of rocket firing aircraft taking out ‘radio location stations’ to enable the landings to go ahead undetected. Fleet spotter aircraft calling HMS Warspite’s gunfire onto targets miles inland giving the battleships position as 1 1/2 miles off shore. Todays edition reports on Wg.C Johnny Johnson leading his Spitfire wing to land on an airstrip in Normandy for the first time. I’m sure there are mistakes (made in the heat of battle) but it does give a remarkable view of the times. I’m sure other papers are doing something similar but if you get the chance just sit and read ALL the news of those times.
mmitch.

Cheguvera,

Your really stretching it! If you get a chance read a book called “The making of the Atomic Bomb” by Richard Rhodes, It is a fascinating and very interesting book…The Germans were activley trying to develope an Atomic weapon, they just were looking in the wrong places scientifically….Undoubtably if Hitler hadn’t invaded Russia the war would have lasted longer but the Allies would have still won…….By 1946 it would have been B-29’s leveling Germany, and Meteors and P-80’s vs Me 262’s either way the Germans could not defeat US production….in my opinion.
TTP

Despite beiing born only 7 years after WW2 ended, I was taught nothing about it at school. I’m interested in WW2, industrial archeology and anything mechanical.
Anything I know about any of them, I’ve taught myself.
My school history lessons, at which I was abysmal, seemed to be 16th and 17th centuries for my entire time there. No wonder I was hopeless at it.

I was born only 2 years after the end of wwII and I was taught nothing about either the first or second world wars. Our history lessons seemed to start with roman times and end with the Boer war, in fact, now that I think about it we never covered the Crimea either. This seems to lend some truth to what my eldest son said a few years ago that schools only teach the history approve by the government. I believe that schools should actually be forced to teach WWI & WWII so that the sacrifices of our armed forces are remembered and the youngsters realise that without it they would be living in a far different country

Wow – well done Dave. I’ll see if I can find that World Around Us piece. It was very, very good (unbiased, excellent footage, plenty of airborne) and a real eye-opener. I commend it to others viewing these threads.

Just to follow up on the discussion of 1994 documentaries… I took a quick look at the New Zealand Listener for the week of June 4th to 11th 1994 and found that the following programmes were aired here in New Zealand.

The Longest Day (international film, TV1, Saturday 4th of June 1994, 10.20pm)
D-Day: The Shortest Day (British documentary, TV1, Sunday 5th of June 1994, midday)
The World at War (British documentary, CTV, Sunday 5th of June 1994, 7.30pm)
Sunday Evening with Jim Sullivan (NZ Radio special, National Radio, Sunday 5th of June 1994, 8.05pm)
World Around Us – Normandy – The Great Crusade (Part 2), (As this was in the World Around Us spot it may well have been Canadian – TV3 was owned by Canada then and played a lot of their shows. It may have been British or US alternatively, but the formers is more likely.TV3, Monday 6th of June 1994, 7.30pm)
CNN: The Great Crusade (US documentary. Sky News, Monday 6th of June 1994, 9.20pm)

Also, I rmemebr and taped the following – not sure if it was Sunday 5th of June before the event or the following week after it…as 60 Minutes features are never billed in the listings.
60 Minutes – NZ made feature on Johnnie Houlton and his flight in OU-V over Normandy beach (TV2, Sunday 5th of June 1994, 7.30pm)

There were undoubtedly more news items too. I recall a few news features on ex-paras who were making the jump again, etc. I think the Charles Wheeler ‘Return to Normandy’ special actually aired here several weeks or months after the commemorations. It was good, he talked to the first Commandoes who had to take out installations so the landings could begin, etc.

Speaking of World Around Us – I wish I’d taped one of its docos in about 1992 that followed the Catalina that flew down the Nile as a tourist operation. That same plane is now ZK-CAT here in NZ.

Hello TTP,
Perhaps, Hitler would and could have allocated considerably more resources towards developing his own super weopons, including A-bomb, had he not entangled himself with Russia…….

Hi Denis, just been watching that programme a few minutes ago (cant believe ive missed them all), I saw the Tornado and Jaguar flights, wow not one of the puked lol, the look of the people on the C-130 tho lol, Id have been grinning if I was on that.
Ive seen many war films, mostly Battle of Britain, A bridge too far, and more, I personally dont like the “hollywood” style movies like Saving private Ryan and the new Pearl Harbor (I think its over the top movies), But I like the old classics that show REAL aircraft, not the image-computer ones.

Attaboy!
A good self taught education can work wonders 🙂 , and when it starts to wet your appetite for more then you can link films like “A Bridge Too Far” the story of the Arnhem airborne drops in Sept 1944 into the scheme of the Battle for Germany.
As a side note my Son Alec who is 22 recently took part in a BBC documentry on D-Day entitled D-Day, The Raw Recruits , (last one tonight !), this was to see if the youth of today matched up to their Grandfathers who landed on the Beaches in Normandy, although he is deeply interested in History it was still an eye opener for him, and I am proud of him for trying to emulate his own Grandfathers deeds in some small way. Plus the lucky little git got an hour and threequarters in the back seat of a Jaguar for this last programme 😡

[QUOTE=One they played then was called ‘The Shortest Day’ – this title stuck in my mind because they also played The Longest Day [/QUOTE]

‘The Shortest Day’ is on television in the UK next week i believe on the History Channel on 6/6/04

Hi guys and gals, Ive basically spent the whole week looking at D-Day documentaries on TV, and listening to the Radio, I now know what D-Day is all about (Im glad I made the effort to find out), you guys are absolutely right, I was never taught about the invasion at school, and I wish I had been, its amazing to think of all those soldiers and airmen and Navy personnel who fought off the Germans, And it doesnt stop with the Beaches, many more were killed fighting in the French fields (which were notoriously difficult to cross.)
Im sorry to say I met a few friends of my age (20), who had no idea what it was all about, and even had the nerve to say “we dont care”, I guess we fought for the right of speech, but to “not care” about veterans is a little selfish.
Ill be paying my respects at Duxford this weekend, fully knowing all about the battle and what it was all about.

In June 1994 there were several very good documentaries screened in NZ about D Day. I recall the two part one you mention. Not sure of the title but if I come across it in my collection I’ll let you know. I think I recorded it.

One they played then was called ‘The Shortest Day’ – this title stuck in my mind because they also played The Longest Day (the film) the same week. I recall also a BBC one where Charles Wheeler, the BBC correspondent and D Day veteran himself, returned with several British and German veterans to places it all happened. I think this was called “Return To Normandy”

If I get a chance I’ll check the June 1994 copies of The Listener in the university library and get further details.

Right now I’m watching The Colour of War V: D Day. Excellent…

Cheers
Dave