What was it?

In July 1939, the USN activated its first mono-plane carrier fighter squardon, VF-3, with 9 examples of the Brewster Buffalo (F2A-1) (prototype ordered in 1936, production ordered in June 1938). The remaining 44 of the order were sent to Finland. The next Buffaloes recieved by the USN were F2A-2s (and later F2A-3), in September 1940.

The next USN mono-plane carrier fighter was the Grumman F4F-3 (fixed-wing), which equipped its first squadrons in December 1940 (prototype ordered in 1936, production ordered in August 1939). The improved F4F-4 (folding wing) began deliveries in November 1941 (when they began to replace the last bi-plane fighters in the USN).

Therefore, when the Movie “Divebomber” was made, there were still many USN combat squadrons flying the Grumman F3F, since there was only one squadron with monoplane fighters from July 1939 to September 1940!

When going Dooooooowwwwwwwnnnnnn!

Hold your breath :rolleyes: , and hope your ear’s don’t pop BIG time :p ??????

Nah :diablo: , buggered if I know Wombat :confused: , there maybe a few on here that may have a more informed answer mate! 😉

Lynn

I got the same impression about the pilots “admiring” this crappy little thing with fixed undercarriage and barely room to accommodate a water pistol, let alone eight Brownings. And an open cockpit? Fair go, the American audiences must REALLY have been out of touch with what was happening in Europe!

One thing that did come to mind though, was how attractive even the most ordinary looking aircraft looked in their pre-war colours. Bright yellow wings, broad, bright green stripes, tricolour rudders and even the early Star ‘n’ Meatball national insignia looked good – no doubt about it, the Yanks always went for the flashy presentation.

This movie perplexed me a bit. I found the story intriguing, and obviously based to a certain degree on fact, but little items like the dopey Brit “fighter” let it down a bit.

But it did make me wonder what the German Ju -87 crews did to avoid black out pulling out from dives. Obviously, they had some sort of cure, so what was it?

Regards

Wombat

Interesting thread.

In 1939, the USN had what was the best maritime airforce in the world. (Acording to David Harmer, ‘Bombers & Battleships’). But then, the Poles had one of the best air forces in Europe – in 1937. In both cases, a couple of years made the entire force obsolete.

“Dive Bomber” was made during the period the USN was re equipping and changing over from the colorful thirties markings to the neutral gray of 1940. That’s why you’ll see those TBD’s in aluminum paint and also the gray scheme.

Next time you watch it note some of the large formations at the very end of the film and you’ll see the prototype Martin Mars.

Nice Oz Ryan, Is it still around?

Good one, oneOnine(lynn) 😉 .

Nice choice of Ryan too! Mate! 😀

😮 Oooohhhh. those Luftwaffe pilot’s MUST have been shaking in their flying boot’s!!! 😮 :rolleyes:

Could find outmyself about the Ryan, but it’s more fun to get people involved I think! 🙂

It was a Ryan STM…

I can’t help but laugh my butt off when the “Navy” pilots all gather round that wee peashooter and go on and on about how it would give the Luftwaffe what for…

Lynn

Ryan too! me think’s Wombat mate!

I might have to check that one out Wombat! 😎 .

And YES, I do think they were WAY behind the 8 ball mate! :rolleyes: .

😮 Underestimated the Japanese built aircraft too!.

The Yank’s had to update real quick! 😀 .

I don’t forget the bit me very old mate Dave told me, who was a gunner’s mate, on the HMAS Canberra(almost sailed on the Sydney too, but was sick in hospital, and lost some good mate’s)
ALL the Allied force’s thought because the Jap’s, had no radar and slanty eye’s, THAT they could see very well in the dark :rolleyes: , and not be able to fight a sea battle at night.

Well, Dave’s given me all his book’s, so I know WHAT happened! :diablo:

The Allied fleet got SMASHED, BIG time!!!!! 😮

Must crash now, still feeling very crappy, ” Gut Nacht ” all

Well, it sure didn’t look like a Gladiator – the top wing was missing!

It might have been an ST, but it still looked too small – hell, it was TINY! The camo looked half convincing, as it seemed reasonably close to Dark Earth and Green, which was correct for that period, I think, but for what was supposed to be a front-line fighter, it was hopelessly inadequate and obsolete. Still, next to those old Grummans or Curtisses, it looked very up to date.

Still, the movie was great for its quality and colour and the storyline was very interesting. Errol Flynn in one of his better roles, I think.

Regards

Wombat

Well with regard to the obsolescent fighters, the movie was made during the war, so perhaps there was some secrecy or military restrictions, hence showing the 2nd line aircraft instead.

THE “RAF” FIGHTER

Someone (sounding authoritative) has suggested that it is a Ryan ST trainer with a fake radial cowling specially done by the studio. The Ryan ST had an inverted inline Menasco engine. My guess is that it had been faked for something else – or that they were hoping it would look like a Gloster Gladiator – a few of which were still active in front line fighting on Gib. – and had received publisity in the USA at the time.

How about a USAF F-106 Delta Dart, I saw them flying out of Bentwaters in the 70’s and they were noisy, Mirage 111, Saab Draken, pre- production B-2, large radio controlled model aircraft, Concorde night fighter variant ?

The Javelin does have a distinct tailplane tho. The feature that she has remembered most is that it was a tailess delta.

Having reminded myself what a javelin looks like it wasnt one.

Jay

Javelin-Now there’s a thought

Fits the description better than anything else mentioned.

Or a Vulcan flying higher than she thought it was.

Jay

How about that other piece of “space junk” – The Javelin???

She’d have to be way out on the year by half a decade or so for it to have been a ‘dragmaster’. Jav’s disappeared from RAF service in the UK by the mid-60’s and the last sqaudron disbanded in the far east in 1968.

The only one to continue flying after this was the sole example with the RAE, flown into Duxford for preservation in the mid-70’s…..but that was painted in red/white raspberry ripple colours….can’t imagine that ever appearing to someone to look like it was black 😀

The only other thing that springs to mind is a Harrier. If she would have to be out, year wise by 2-3, as there was the Harrier used for the London-New York race (I remember that blasting over our house at the time)….but wasn’t that 1969?

How about that other piece of “space junk” – The Javelin???

It’s the “no discernible nose section” bit that bothers me, and would rule out both types as well. Frankly, non-aviation people’s ability to discribe an aircraft makes exercises like this almost impossible, even without 30+ years gap. Not to give up, but it could have been almost anything ‘unusual’…

If a Vulcan was to be dicounted on size, then so would a SR-71…. 😉

And I would be very surprised that a SR-71 ever went that close to London at that low an altitude, and that’s ignoring the fact that has been said, if it was 1971-ish, they weren’t even here.

If the June time is accurate then, I’d be 99% certain it was a Vulcan on the pre-Trooping route/timing check run.

I;m not sure, Vulcan was what I initially thought, and its certainly nice,but she was sure it was smaller than that, describing it as “about the size of a harrier” although time and light do indeed play tricks, and a Vulcan is the most ‘triangular’ aircraft according to the description I was given. The loudness of it that she recalled also pointed in my mind to Vulcan. If there were Vulcans flying that day I would say it is most likely.

As it was a school day before the summer holidays i should imagine early june is likely. If the year is wrong then it is not by much, as this was during her time at secondary school.

SR71 is a very interesting possibility, tho. She seemed very clear that the aircraft was painted black, although they always look black, as you say.

Thankyou, everyone.

Jay

Sounds like a good reason to me, whenever i see an aircraft in the skies it always appears black, unless its real low and the weathers good.