What will Germany replace The Tornado with?

What stores are currently cleared and used from Luftwaffe Tornados these days? ASSTA 3 is the latest upgrade right?

operational? Qualified?

RAAF = yes (they were the “launch” customer for Boeing)

Boeing will produce and integrate JDAM ER wing kits for the RAAF under a contract awarded in 2011. Following additional flight and certification testing, production and initial deliveries of JDAM ER to the RAAF are planned for 2015.
http://www.deagel.com/news/Royal-Australian-Air-Force-Tests-Boeing-JDAM-Extended-Range-Weapon_n000013677.aspx

US = in testing (active dev budgets for F/A-18 in place and naval mine versions have been dropped by the B-1B). For the SH, the OSIP 10-16 budget item covers the wing kits and a lot of other weapon upgrades to include UAI, SLAM-ER, etc. OSIP 10-16 has been going on for a few years but no other details are available. Given that Boeing has the best track record for UAI integration (every JDAM variant is already UAI), it’s a safe bet that JDAM-ER will also have UAI which will speed up integration on the F-16C/D, F-15E, F-35, B-1B, B-52, LRS-B, and F-18E/F.

Remind me when was sheduoed block IIIF?

Given that the anticipated 3F date (when the program was baselined back in 2012) was Aug2017, they hit that date pretty good. Since we’ve only 3 years from the anticipated 4.1 release (which is primarily a software update), I’d say they will be able to hit that just fine.

Current JDAMs have a ~12nmi crossrange capability and have wing kits in production.

operational? qualified? No

Per the FY2018 budget docs, the first Block 4 release is due in the 4th qtr of 2020. Since they just completed a review of the FoM program, we should get better details soon and/or in the FY2019 budget docs.

Remind me when was sheduoed block IIIF?

As far as we know, there is no clue about the release date of block IV…

Per the FY2018 budget docs, the first Block 4 release is due in the 4th qtr of 2020. Since they just completed a review of the FoM program, we should get better details soon and/or in the FY2019 budget docs.

http://www.dtic.mil/descriptivesum/Y2018/Navy/stamped/U_0604810M_5_PB_2018.pdf

GBU 48 is part of standard 3R afaik

Only the 500lb Paveway (Pv2, Enh Pv2, and Pv4) are cleared for Block 3F, the rest come in Block4.

JDAMs are OK for bombing ISIS technicals, but are ill-suited for use against a defended target due to poor cross range (<10 km).

Current JDAMs have a ~12nmi crossrange capability and have wing kits in production.

https://www.regonline.com/custImages/340000/348932/Documents/JDAMNDIAIntlA-GSymposium2017_ForNDIADropbox.pdf

GBU 48 is part of standard 3R afaik

As far as we know, there is no clue about the release date of block IV…

1970s technology LGBs and 1990s technology JDAMs are OK for bombing ISIS technicals, but are ill-suited for use against a defended target due to poor cross range (<10 km).

A JDAM can be tossed a respectable distance. But building a SAR map, identifying and geolocating a target requires a single attacker to fly an intricate flight path. Or requires 2 attackers where one targets and the second jet tosses the JDAMs using the 1st jet’s targeting solution.

Its more effective to use weapons with decent cross range such as SDB, JSM or Spear 3 and get the deed done in a single pass.

Given that even if Germany ordered the F-35 today, it will be not be delivered before 2021/22, which means that the F-35 will be at Block 4+.

This includes full Paveway & UAI (every JDAM in existence is already UAI) support.

Consider also that Block 3F includes the 500lb “Enhanced Paveway” so adding the 1k and 2k versions in Block4.x is a given.

We’ll hopefully know more about the Block 4+ plans since they just did a review recently.

No, but what he wrote is that the Luftwaffe’s only air-ground weapon is GU-48.

What he meant was, of course, that the only Luftwaffe A-G weapon integrated with Luftwaffe Typhoons is the GBU-48.

You’re right. But obviously, considering all of Luftwaffe’s A/G weapons makes much more sense in this case. I missed that.

Actually, of all the stuff they use, Rafale and Typhoon are certified for the same number of weapons – one. GBU-24 in Rafale’s case, Taurus for EF. (Plus dumb bombs, I know Rafale can carry dumb bombs, not sure about EF.)
Now of course they added GBU-48 to the (Typhooon) list rather than something like the GBU-54 they already use with the Tornado. Reason is apparently the Enhanced Paveway series is already integrated with the UK 1000 lbs warhead and the Mk 82 warhead. GBU-16 itself is also integrated, making integration of the Mk83 Enhanced Paveway pretty straightforward.

Come to think of it, F-35 currently can’t carry a single A/G weapon the Luftwaffe uses.

The one weapon the Rafale cannot offer is the US B-61 and that IMO is why the German Air Force remain keen on a US airframe.

Germany is too small and too close to France that it does not need separate weopon.

I don’t know for sure, but it should be straight-forward.

No, but what he wrote is that the Luftwaffe’s only air-ground weapon is GU-48.

What he meant was, of course, that the only Luftwaffe A-G weapon integrated with Luftwaffe Typhoons is the GBU-48.

It should be (I don’t know if it is) a very simple matter to add the software for all the A-G weapons integrated with any Typhoon to any other Typhoon, so allowing Luftwaffe Typhoons to use RAF (etc.) weapons, & vice-versa, should be easy. Do you know if it is?

Really? Funny, I thought the Taurus was air-ground, & the AGM-88, the GBU-54, GBU-24 . . . . . and dumb bombs, of course.

I don’t think any of those are integrated on German Typhoons though.

Just to add to one of the debate – don’t know if this has been posted or will bring some interest (notice at 1min15s the hard mode on the selection switch with a minim alt (auto) of 200ft = 66m)

And (obviously)

Well the F-18 offers an ideal replacement for the ECR Tornado in the form of the EA-18G, something the Rafale can’t offer.
The F-15 and E/F Hornets offer a huge number of integrated weapons, more than Rafale for sure. Even Taurus is available on the F-15.
But this is most likely only between F-35 and EF T4.

The one weapon the Rafale cannot offer is the US B-61 and that IMO is why the German Air Force remain keen on a US airframe.

eagle:

the Luftwaffe just introduced A/G capability with the GBU-48. That’s the only A/G weapon they have

Really? Funny, I thought the Taurus was air-ground, & the AGM-88, the GBU-54, GBU-24 . . . . . and dumb bombs, of course.

Don’t forget that by requesting the participation of three different platforms, the German MoD, opposed to the F-35 choice, force the US diplomacy to be divided on 3 different fronts (the US administration having the obligation to equally represent each industrial – you can see that with two choices from Boeing and a single one from LM, the balance will arithmetically not be in the favor of the 35).

they asked for information about the F-15 and F-18, but not Rafale, while the Rafale is, factually, a more recent and fully operational design that has nothing to envy to these two (it would rather be the opposite, in fact)…

Well the F-18 offers an ideal replacement for the ECR Tornado in the form of the EA-18G, something the Rafale can’t offer.
The F-15 and E/F Hornets offer a huge number of integrated weapons, more than Rafale for sure. Even Taurus is available on the F-15.
But this is most likely only between F-35 and EF T4.

No idea whether Germany will go for a new design in conjunction with France or an existing design but if the choice were between Rafale and Typhoon it would not make financial or industrial sense to introduce a new type.

The new design with France is not a Tornado replacement but a Typhoon/Rafale replacement. A new design would not be ready in time to replace the Tornados.

Additionally the Luftwaffe must have a considerable stock of A2G weapons, I guess mostly integrated onto Typhoon. How many of these could not be used with Rafale? I suspect that buying Rafale would need new A2G weapons of French manufacture to be bought (expensive) in the place of weapons Germany has already bought but could not use since they were not integrated onto Rafale (money wasted).

Funny. As I wrote in the EF news thread, the Luftwaffe just introduced A/G capability with the GBU-48. That’s the only A/G weapon they have and I bet their stock is minimal.
But this is a moot point as Rafale will not be bought.

I cannot see Rafale as a serious contender as a Tornado replacement.

Absolutely. Actually, not only is it not a serious contender, it’s no contender at all.