What Would Improve Legends

A few more of my own thoughts:

Cant see the need for pyros myself,i think the show is fine without, and i wouldn’t mind betting they cost a fortune.
Those of you who have seen the Legends 2003 DVD will recall the DX fire crew attending the warning flare fired to warn the Guvnor of his aircrafts undercarriage problem,which had caused the grass to start smouldering where it had landed.
I think that says it all as far as pyros are concerned.
I also think it would be good if all those ‘flightline police’ in their flourescent jackets were removed to the taxiway , getting one of those people to move so photo’s can be taken is virtually impossible,in my experience that is the one complaint i have overheard most people have on the flightline walk. It seems to me that the flightline police think they are special, and are not prepared to move for anyone irrespective of how nicely they are asked.I realise that some of these people may be ground crew, but I’m sure they could keep an eye on people from the taxiway.

Steve

Originally posted by Will J
The Grace Spitfire not real enough?:eek: I would have thought with its history it would be particularly appropriate around the D day anniversary! Also it is very recognisable to the general public visitor with its exposure on prime time ‘Spitfire Ace’ programmes, that would seem like two good enough reasons to include it in flying legends.

As far as ‘something different’ for the enthusiasts among the crowd, how about a four ship formation of Spitfire two seaters, it will be the first time in a long while that that has been possible. Who would lead???

Just an idea.. but if anybody out there could make it happen;)

ML407 would have a right to be there – she’s got one of the most distinguished combat histories of a Spitfire that I know of. Hell, she’s practically a flying legend on her own!

Two-seater Spitfire foursome?? Please!! 😀

(MJ627, ML407, PT462 & PV202 :))

More twins etc would be great, I know they are more expensive to bring in and I do understand the constraints, but it seems that we are dominated by singles (not that I am complaining) PROMISE.

Some aircraft are coming out of the Superhanagar this year for the rebuild to take place, so we never know maybe there will be a chance, whilst they are out.

Many of the other ideas are great but just impractical due to the airfield, the flight line is all ready to long for security to manage on there man power. If any of you want to help us please pm me. Free tickets 🙂 and at the end of teh day we are all to tired to manage an evening walk, which is a shame because I agree it would be great with the sun out of the way. I think that TFC do try there very best and always work very hard. The engineers as much as I take the mick are all good guys and give 100%.

I am sure they will have a great show for us this year, and as was mentioned, you never know when it might stop so enjoy what you have.

The Grace Spitfire not real enough?:eek: I would have thought with its history it would be particularly appropriate around the D day anniversary! Also it is very recognisable to the general public visitor with its exposure on prime time ‘Spitfire Ace’ programmes, that would seem like two good enough reasons to include it in flying legends.

As far as ‘something different’ for the enthusiasts among the crowd, how about a four ship formation of Spitfire two seaters, it will be the first time in a long while that that has been possible. Who would lead???

Just an idea.. but if anybody out there could make it happen;)

Hi Hatton,
I am 100% certain that KB889 was parked on the line at a IWM show. Don’t think it was Leg Ends. I don’t think PA474 joined KB; I think the IWM’s Lanc was on it’s own. IIRC it was just after the restoration was finished (or just before – I seem to recall the midships turret wasn’t fitted or had a tarp?) I’ve recently been through my Lanc pics for something else, and I don’t recall one of KB in the sun, but I’ll have a look again when I get a chance.

Anyone else? LAHARVE – you seem to have a pic of everything at DX! 😀

Cheers

Originally posted by cygnet

If they want Bric-a-brac stalls put them over noth side along with the bouncy castle.

They already are northside!!

Also the comments about the time and effort to get museum a/c out – Surely its worth it in the long run and I bet theres plenty of volunteers out there to help!??I think we all realise that the aam is now sealed but for the rest…
Off on a related tangent why dont the IWM organise a “photo weekend” and get everything out for photographers (ooh err missus) . I would willingly pay for that to cover the costs of time and effort.

Step ladders – extra cost! surely not. I do agree they are a pain when some no-brainer plants his right on the crowd line with no concern for those behind. But surely all it takes is a few signs and a few coarse words by patrolling staff to move tham back a bit would suffice.RIAT have a “ladder enclosure policy”(!) and Im sure other shows could follow suit.

Every so often someone will remark that PA474 and KB889 were parked together at one of the Duxford shows, personally i dont believe this ever happened. Does anyone have a photograph to prove me wrong, hope so 🙂

Museum Aircraft outside please!!!

I know the ones in the AAM are ‘intombed’ and will never see fresh air again so before the new Super Hanger intomb’s a few more lets get the Lanc, mossie and some others out there!!!

I’d like to see these aircraft outside just once before they get Hung!

“Can I have a CAC Boomerang please? (Personal wish…)”

Seconded. 🙂

Hi
Just an amendment – Steve recalls correctly, that I suggested it would be nice to have a post display flightline walk. As a press pass photographer, even I don’t get access after the show; though a few privilaged and worthy souls do. (And they work hard for the oportunity – I’m not sniping) I’d like it, but it’s not likely to happen as on Sunday the aircraft are being put away, and on the Saturday there’s a lot else to do, and the crews get a hard earned bevvy or two in (so I’m told!) – so the thought somes under “it would be nice, but I don’t expect it to happen!”

As regards the bring the a/c out – have we already forgotten the Storch parked with a bunch of Germans in their ‘camp’ between hangars 2 and 3? Yes, where possible, and apropriate, please. The oportunity to have the IWM Lanc out, and several B-17s in a line have been taken in the past…

Photobus – yes please, though difficult.

Bric a Brac. I don’t like it,, but I just ignore it. It means money changes hands, keeps some of the families happy, so if you don’t like it, ignore it – they help pay for your show, and get more families to attend than otherwise would.

Stepladers. Yes, well. Putting ’em at the front on the crowd is just selfish and small minded. (is that you? please think of the others. I’m 6’4″ – I try not to obstruct others enjoyment of the show by standing in the way…) In France, I suspect, action would be taken – is it at La Ferte? But considering IWM feel happy to charge for seats in the wheelchair enclosure, there’s a rather unpleasent taste all round developing here.

Overall it’s an excellent show. More ‘scenarios’ would be nice, but overall I like it – this year it’ll be interesting to see how they manage with a different mix of a/c. Get the best out of the ‘guest star’ a/c – for several years it’s not seemed worth the journey, how little is made of it in the end. Can I have a CAC Boomerang please? (Personal wish…)

Finally? Let’s say a thanks for the ‘Joker’ / Balbo display combo. Deals with a scheduling problem in superb style, and is clearly many people’s highlight – rightly.

Cheers

Originally posted by Snapper
Actually, i’ll tell you what I want to see. Something glaringly and obviously missing. Something that REALLY ****ES ME OFF BY ITS ABSENCE. I don’t know the reason behind it, and I don’t understand the logic of it. But:

I WANT TO SEE CAROLYN GRACE FLYING HER SPITFIRE THERE.

If this is totally wrong then don’t have a pop at me, this is just what I’ve heard from someone I know who is a supporter of the Grace Spitfire.

The reason this aircraft does not appear at Legends is simply because its a two seater and allegedly the organisers don’t feel its a true Spit, so, for that reason is not booked for legends.

As I said this is just what I’ve heard and don’t know if its true so please don’t send any flak my way.

Neal

Flying Legends improvements

I think everyone has just about covered everything here, so all we have to hope is that Stephen Grey and TFC read and digest it all. Suppose I had just better underline a few things:

1) Less music and commentary during the flypasts – I gave up shooting video at Duxford because of this.

2) More ‘quality’ stuff we haven’t seen before, as there are plenty of ‘legends’ in Europe that haven’t yet attended. Bring on the Dutch Connie and all the other stuff that others have requested!!!

3) Set pieces with pyros if possible.

4) Space out the Flightline Walk aircraft(they are packed far too close together!) so they are easier to photograph and bring them closer so you still don’t have to use a telephoto lens!!!
What’s the point of making an additional charge to do this if you can get the same shots from the main barrier? Bring outside some of the non-airworthy warbirds and add them to the end of the line. This has been done before(Lysander, B-17 Mary Alice etc) so don’t stop doing this.
Open the Flightline Walk again AFTER the show is over, as the sun is in a much better position for photography late afternoon.

Pyros are an excellent idea, but remember that all of the grass area at DX is used for aircraft movements. The last thing the IWM want to do is to spend a week clearing the grass of bits of pyro, and filling in the holes. And it burns the grass! As it is now, the airfield is 100% servicable on the Monday morning after Legends.

Food – I agree could do with some changes. But bear in mind that the caterers are only passing on the high charges levied by the IWM for their pitch (Why should they pay for you to eat?) Even food in the pilot’s and guest’s tent is priced a lot higher for those without free tickets. Why not do the ‘english’ thing and take a picnic? A lot cheaper, even at Sainsbury’s prices. And, you are eating food that has to please the masses rather than a quarter pounder greaseburger cooked by a greasy bloke from Rochdale who had just had a crap and neglected to wash his hands afterwards! (In case of sensitivity and PC, no offence meant or intended to Rochdale or greasy blokes, just illustrating a point!)

I’d also stop the commentators from talking – no matter who they are, they all talk out of their r$e sometimes, some more than others.

Music – we have music, its called aircraft noise:D Nothing else compares.

Stands – theres an awful lot of tat to be had at Duxford (or any UK display). Restrict stands to those relevant to a flying display (i.e No cuddly toys or fondue sets).

Aircraft – Polikarpovs, Red Bull Corsair, More French warbirds, anything to surprise the masses. Definately NOT the Red Barrows or any other Fast jets. And no more Utterly Butterly Stearmans, PLEASE!!!!!!

Agreed that Legends should stay with the current format – it’s why people go.

Thems me thoughts:p

I usually like to see something which I haven’t seen before. It isn’t necessary that I see x amount of spitfires, or the balance of fighters is less than last year etc.
Seeing something new (yes, Dutch connie please), or a different presentation (pyros maybe), would probably keep the majority of us enthusiasts pleased.
Yes, I am grateful for what we have now, as this may not be the case tomorrow. Who knows what the economies for running these warbirds are going to be in the future, or potential legislation which may harm the entire movement. Enjoy it while we can.
Ways in which Legends could be improved have already been mentioned, but here are my views (I know, some may be impractical):
1. Drop trhe obtrusive music during flypasts.
2. Better catering.
3. More use of static aircraft hauled out from the museum into the daylight, perhaps pitched in a diorama setting (say, Lancaster with bomb trolley, scaffolding near an engine-you get the picture. Or, a fighter on steel matting surrounded by sandbags, or…
…the possibilities go on.
4. Pyros.
5. An ‘unobtrusive!’ temporary grandstand, similar to RIAT (do they still do it?). Not sure where, may be near the Superhanger. For an extra fee, would give great photo opportunites. Also solves the stepladder problem!
6. Flightline photo bus or similar (RIAT again).

Just my ramblings!

Regards,

Paul

Open up the catering to more competition, then maybe the prices would be more realistic.
If they want Bric-a-brac stalls put them over noth side along with the bouncy castle.
Double decker buses for the flight line walk.
Museum Aircraft outside.
But I can’t think of any thing to improve the flying display,the timing is right the pairing of aircraft by type, engine Maker etc, is good, Balbo brilliant (without the music!)
I would think that Pyros are out of the question probably because of the village nimbys and maybe the amount of aircraft movements in the time scale

Got to be for me an Antonov AN-22 Anthaeus or a Yak-52 formation airfield attack with pyro’s .

“The appearance of the MATS Constellation a few years ago was a departure from the percieved policy of the display, but was memorable and certainly didn’t detract from the show. “

I agree that its was great to see the Connie,but I’m not sure it was a departure from the usual policy.The Connie served in WW.2 (admittedly in limited numbers) as the C69,carrying cargo,troops and VIP’s.It’s a piston engined military transport from WW2 so therefore fits in with the Legends theme IMHO. Would love to see the Dutch Connie at Legends this year if she’s flying by then,in her short-nosed form she’s even closer to the configuration of the wartime examples.
As for stepladders I wholeheartedly agree!I might even suggest extending the charge to those with tall camera tripods,which can be as tall as a bloke on a stepladder in some cases.

What do i think would improve Legends?

In truth, not a lot. We’re very priveleged to have these aircraft displayed heartily in front of us for a weekend, let’s not forget that.

But… the airshow-going public are customers, and customers in this day and age are demanding more and more. So it follows that Legends may well have to evolve. The appearance of the MATS Constellation a few years ago was a departure from the percieved policy of the display, but was memorable and certainly didn’t detract from the show. Indeed, for me, it was a highlight. Seeing a pair of Ju52’s in the air together last year was also a first for me.

So, in the air, what could be added? I’d love to see the Polikarpov’s. The Flugwerk 190 would also stop me dead in my tracks, and (with apologies to the ‘props only’ brigade) I’d dearly love to see a Stormbirds Me262 replica appear, perhaps even mixing it with a pair of P51’s? Hey, it’s representative of a significant aircraft type from the second world war, don’t try telling me it doesn’t fit! 😉

I like the suggestion of having a half hour set aside for the old flutteries, and I’m also baffled as to why Carolyn’s Spitfire rarely appears. Okay, there have been engine issues recently, but…?

On the ground, for God’s sake sort the catering out. Mildenhall beer and burger stands? Oh hell yeah! At the very least lets get some common sense applied to the catering prices. :rolleyes:

Someone yesterday (JDK?) suggested having a post display Flight line walk. That would be nice, but I do wonder whether it’s feasible, as certainly on the Sunday the ground crews start to put the aeroplanes to bed as soon as they possibly can. Understandable – Legends weekend involves some very long and tiring hours (for which we really ARE grateful lads, despite our moaning.)

One thing I would like to suggest though. A step ladder policy. Charge step ladder users an extra tenner (for example) to bring the damn things in, and then have step ladder free zones. I’m serious about this. Bring them and use them if you want to, but be prepared to make an additional contribution in order to do so, and don’t expect to be able to inconvenience the vast majority of your fellow airshow-goers.

I agree,that music is appalling and I for one much prefer the sounds of the various engines in massed formations,………..its what the audience is there for isn’t it?? sight and sounds.
I wrote to the show organisers many years ago regarding the music and that nasty little train that used to get in everyones view just at the wrong time.
They replied that the music was important to the show and would not change it,nor would they stop the empty train rattling back and forth – not even during the show!!,but I have not seen it for many years now,……..their idea’s are obviously open to change if there is enough pressure brought to bear.
I think the commentators do a great job and really wish they would present and commentate on the Legends video’s/DVD’s instead of messr’s Bowd and Maffett who I personally think do these presentations no favours at all.

Steve

Originally posted by Paul Rix
The one thing that would improve Flying Legends in my opinion, and please don’t laugh, would be to turn the volume of the music down which is played on the PA system for certain displays (or just turn it off completely). I know it is supposed to be stirring music, but frankly I want to hear the beautiful roar of Merlins as the BBMF does it’s stuff rather than ‘Land of Hope and Glory’. Just an observation from the Legends I have been to (2000/2001/2002). Other than that, Legends is an amazing airshow. I have to say that I am glad I missed the last one though (and if I had still been in the UK last summer I would almost certainly have been there).

I must agree on the music side of things i know its to set the mood so to speak but it does drown out the sounds of the engines too much for my liking,I must say i have been overall impressed with the commentators at Legends who generally know people want to hear the aircraft and do shut up enough at times to allow this.
Its hard to improve on such a unique show but i would like to see some more static aircraft from the collection on show outside,I must admit i don’t like seeing things like the utterly Butterly wing walkers there either(only seen them once there)would rather see i stearman in military colours flown dueing the show,Legends works so well because no other show feels like it or is like it that must not change.