What's in a name?

No idea how the Shackleton name was picked

Nothing unusual about that one. Coastal Command aircraft were often named after maritime explorers or seafarers, eg. Anson, Hudson, Beaufort.

Best wishes
Steve P

was there a British city that the RAF never named a aircraft after, i cant think of one. saying that was there a aircraft named the Bristol.

Bristol’s were never that vain. 😎

there was a Blackburn Blackburn, did Bristol make a Bristol Bristol !!!!.
what did the name Beaufighter mean ???. 🙂

A fighter based on the Beaufort. 😀 I can only think that the Beaufort was named after the guy who invented the wind strength scale. 😉

was there a British city that the RAF never named a aircraft after, i cant think of one. saying that was there a aircraft named the Bristol. there was a Blackburn Blackburn, did Bristol make a Bristol Bristol !!!!.
what did the name Beaufighter mean ???. 🙂

Correct 🙂 It was all in a BBC documentary on the Shackleton some years back in which Mrs Chadwick was interviewed.

No idea how the Shackleton name was picked
One story is that there was a Chadwick family connection………….( by memory on the female side)

Roy Chadwick named it the Shackleton, after Sir Ernest Shackleton the great Antarctic Explorer, and also after his wife’s grandmother Agnes Shackleton, who was a distant relative of the explorer.

No idea how the Shackleton name was picked
One story is that there was a Chadwick family connection………….( by memory on the female side)

I can see the connection there Vern and thanks for the link to the ‘naming rules’ web page – interesting that! Back to Nimrod and the Classics, briefly, in the old testament, Cush begat Nimrod and Nimrod became a mighty hunter in the face of the Lord (it’s all Old Testament stuff this) and there appears to have been an awful lot of begating going on then. This makes perfect sense when naming the current Nimrod, so perhaps the orginal Hawer bi-plane, given the NAVAL link, was named after Shackleton’s first ship of exploration? Indeed does, ‘Shackleton’ buck the trend around the naming of bombers after cities? This is an interesting subject and one which I (clearly) haven’t read around enough, so please excuse the ignorance.

Rules changed in the 1950’s hence Victor Vulcan and Valiant. No idea how the Shackleton name was picked, but the current Nimrod name was selected because of the name of the ship (a guy who worked on the things told me the story).

the first Hawker Nimrod – Naval aircraft naming rules

I can see the connection there Vern and thanks for the link to the ‘naming rules’ web page – interesting that! Back to Nimrod and the Classics, briefly, in the old testament, Cush begat Nimrod and Nimrod became a mighty hunter in the face of the Lord (it’s all Old Testament stuff this) and there appears to have been an awful lot of begating going on then. This makes perfect sense when naming the current Nimrod, so perhaps the orginal Hawer bi-plane, given the NAVAL link, was named after Shackleton’s first ship of exploration? Indeed does, ‘Shackleton’ buck the trend around the naming of bombers after cities? This is an interesting subject and one which I (clearly) haven’t read around enough, so please excuse the ignorance.

the first Hawker Nimrod – Naval aircraft naming rules

The Hunted One…

Oh yes 😀

JDK,It is, I think, the only name of a British aircraft that’s from a foreign capital city, although the Boeing Washington came within two letters of it
Rangoon ,Kingston , Singapore
Valetta a moot point because of the spelling .

There was one used by the British until quite recently, abet unmanned. Powered by a Viper Turbojet.

The Hunted One…

Indeed, I’ve read that elsewhere too. Despite an appalling history of ill treatment of the indigenous cultures, we in Australia have been keen to use Aboriginal names for aircraft – the CAC Wirraway, Boomerang, and Winjeel all being examples of course.

There was one used by the British until quite recently, abet unmanned. Powered by a Viper Turbojet.

Indeed, I’ve read that elsewhere too. Despite an appalling history of ill treatment of the indigenous cultures, we in Australia have been keen to use Aboriginal names for aircraft – the CAC Wirraway, Boomerang, and Winjeel all being examples of course.

The British chosen name for the bomber ‘Canberra’ is, unlikely as it may seem, actually an Aboriginal name for ‘meeting place’, but like most terms there’s argument about if that’s correct, or actually the name of a tribe, and there’s dispute about how to pronounce it!

It is, I think, the only name of a British aircraft that’s from a foreign capital city, although the Boeing Washington came within two letters of it. 😉

Back in the day, anyone in the higher echelons of the RAF and Air Min, and in senior design staff etc. would have (or be expected to have) a solid classical education. It’s only today such terms seem obscure. To them the bible, Greek annd Roman history was a touchstone as readily referred to as todays’ celeb trivia magazines are by the illiterati.

‘Nimrod – the mighty hunter’. Nimrod is a movement in Elgar’s Enigma Variations; one of the most popular pieces of classical music, and seen as very British…

Cheers

You wants some classics Overstrand and Sidestrand, two villages in Norfolk near Cormer (something to do with Boulton Paul). Nimrod was the name of a ship commanded by a guy called Ernest Shackleton on the first expedition to Antarctica that he personally commanded (that is the reason that the HS801 was called the Nimrod, a follow on to the Shackleton). Canberra, named after a Commonweath captial city (Bristol Bombay and HP Hydrabad are other examples of aircraft named after towns in the empire) Wellington was more likey a follow on from Wellesley light bomber, than the name of a place in New Zealand (met the criteria however). Fairey Gordon another light bomber named after a General (based on the IIIF). There is a Washington in England (Tyne and Wear) hence the name meets the UK and Commonweath town rules, as well as the US connection.

i can see your piont there.. just imagine the trouble that would have been caused if we named the eurofighter, stuka !!!!
i knew a man once who is now sadley passed away. who operated german tanks during WW2, he was captured by the Brits and spent the rest of his life here in the UK. he told me once that his parents had been killed during a bombing raid. so there is things we should feel guilty about as well…

Something to do with the Germans wasn’t it, so what are the Luftwaffe going to call it, something else? You can’t blame them for not wanting to name an a/c after something that killed a lot of German troops, particularly in the Falaise pocket. No offence meant to our German pals, I had a wonderful time in Bavaria last year, but please don’t feel so guilty chaps, it was very noticeable and very sad, WW2 was nothing to do with the people that I associated with, but they were very reticent about even approaching the subject, it took a few wheat beers to get one to admit that his grandfather had been in U-Boats, brave man, I had no problem with it, he obviously did.

Spot On Pete. However, The Luftwaffe are going to call it the same name that the BF 108 had, Taifun, which by a funny coincidence means Typhoon. Story has it that a BAe man came up with the point and the Germans then relented.

The files also include suggestions from Australia – 20 odd Aboriginal names that the files suggest the Air Staff found quite impossible to pronounce before politely rejecting all of them..

Indeed, I’ve read that elsewhere too. Despite an appalling history of ill treatment of the indigenous cultures, we in Australia have been keen to use Aboriginal names for aircraft – the CAC Wirraway, Boomerang, and Winjeel all being examples of course.

The British chosen name for the bomber ‘Canberra’ is, unlikely as it may seem, actually an Aboriginal name for ‘meeting place’, but like most terms there’s argument about if that’s correct, or actually the name of a tribe, and there’s dispute about how to pronounce it!

It is, I think, the only name of a British aircraft that’s from a foreign capital city, although the Boeing Washington came within two letters of it. 😉

Just to chuck a spanner in the works, how about Nimrod? That’s appeared twice. Given it’s origin, were there some bods at either the design stage or in the AM who were either classically and/or theologically trained? You don’t just invent Nimrod out of thin air!

Back in the day, anyone in the higher echelons of the RAF and Air Min, and in senior design staff etc. would have (or be expected to have) a solid classical education. It’s only today such terms seem obscure. To them the bible, Greek annd Roman history was a touchstone as readily referred to as todays’ celeb trivia magazines are by the illiterati.

‘Nimrod – the mighty hunter’. Nimrod is a movement in Elgar’s Enigma Variations; one of the most popular pieces of classical music, and seen as very British…

Cheers

There were rules laid down by the air ministry and the admiralty. The general rules can be found here.

http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/gustin_military/brdes.html

The Cat names of the 1960’s were all Anglo-French projects (Jaguar was suggested by the French as it went with SEPECAT and was spelt and pronounced the same in both English and French (BAC had to get the OK from the Car Company first). The case for the Helicopters was the same. Tornado was a similar case in that the spelling was the same in all three languages. The current Typhoon was a follow on from Tornado (and there was a fight to get the aircraft called that name thanks to the PC brigade).

Something to do with the Germans wasn’t it, so what are the Luftwaffe going to call it, something else? You can’t blame them for not wanting to name an a/c after something that killed a lot of German troops, particularly in the Falaise pocket. No offence meant to our German pals, I had a wonderful time in Bavaria last year, but please don’t feel so guilty chaps, it was very noticeable and very sad, WW2 was nothing to do with the people that I associated with, but they were very reticent about even approaching the subject, it took a few wheat beers to get one to admit that his grandfather had been in U-Boats, brave man, I had no problem with it, he obviously did.

There do seem to be these trends in going for names. In between the wars there was a tendancy for fighters to be named after bird species (some native, some migrant) seen in Britain: Grebe, Gamecock, Tomtit, Osprey , Flycatcher, Snipe, etc. and also carried on throughout the war and immdiately after: Gannet and Fulmar spring to mind.

Perhaps, in keeping with the rather more aggressive names being employed for front line aircraft at the time for the TSR2, they should have chosen Shrike. Let’s see the BAC Shrike (?)……Had someone else not had the name for a missile of course! (actually, was the Shrike a more ‘recent’ weapon?) Firecrest might have been good too.

There were rules laid down by the air ministry and the admiralty. The general rules can be found here.

http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/gustin_military/brdes.html

The Cat names of the 1960’s were all Anglo-French projects (Jaguar was suggested by the French as it went with SEPECAT and was spelt and pronounced the same in both English and French (BAC had to get the OK from the Car Company first). The case for the Helicopters was the same. Tornado was a similar case in that the spelling was the same in all three languages. The current Typhoon was a follow on from Tornado (and there was a fight to get the aircraft called that name thanks to the PC brigade).

There do seem to be these trends in going for names. In between the wars there was a tendancy for fighters to be named after bird species (some native, some migrant) seen in Britain: Grebe, Gamecock, Tomtit, Osprey , Flycatcher, Snipe, etc. and also carried on throughout the war and immdiately after: Gannet and Fulmar spring to mind.

Perhaps, in keeping with the rather more aggressive names being employed for front line aircraft at the time for the TSR2, they should have chosen Shrike. Let’s see the BAC Shrike (?)……Had someone else not had the name for a missile of course! (actually, was the Shrike a more ‘recent’ weapon?) Firecrest might have been good too.