What's the difference?

🙂 48 hour warranty 🙂

And I got to get my own personal POSTMAN, who brought me loads of get well wishes from some chappies from some Forum or tother.
Postmans name was Trumper, Can I extend my Warranty.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Jim.

They didn’t resuscitate you because they liked you.

kev35

Oh, I don’t know Kev, I am a lovely, cuddly sort of chap when you get to know the real me…………:highly_amused:
Jim.
Lincoln .7

🙂 48 hour warranty 🙂

A typical example, is when I underwent major surgery at the end of last July, as you know. When I went back to Addenbrooks in the following January this year, the Surgeon stated, that I had died on the table, and it took the team just over 5 minutes, to bring me back, and I take my hat off to them for doing so. As I was then over 72 yrs of age, they could have “Let me go” and save bed space, after care etc.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Jim.

They didn’t resuscitate you because they liked you. If the system is the same as it used to be then there is a legal obligation to attempt resuscitation if someone dies on the operating table or dies within 48 hours of having undergone surgery.

Regards,

kev35

I see your point Warren, so instead of “Resuscitate”, read, “Failing to feed, give drink, or any care whatsoever” until the patient finally dies.
Just about the same as pulling the plug, in as many words?.

It protects the medics from a charge of unlawful death.

IIRC Warren, Care homes for those that are in need of same in Scotland, are paid for. I think it’s morally wrong, that anyone should have to sell their homes to pay for the right to live to a peaceful end. I would like to think that all of my hard earned, paying off the house would benefit my kids, not the State, who have robbed me, you and many others in Taxes etc, and then deprive you of leaving your family a legacy.

Have a word with the right wing contingent around here and ask them about where their taxes go, whether they are in favour of their money being used for the benefit of others… Essentially Obamacare is the same thing in America.

Euthanasia is still widely practiced in UK hospitals, but it’s just not talked about.
My experiences with both my parents and two brothers, was that the Doc would have a quiet word with us, asking if we wanted to stop whatever was keeping them alive, i.e. drugs or machines.

Exactly,
And if they’re not being kept alive by drugs, machines, etc, then someone would need to kill them – no other way to put it. Many doctors won’t do it since they went into medicine to heal, not kill, and those who might could end their careers off then or after a long drawn out court case.

And meanwhile people who want to die get to suffer.

I would personally always go with the wishes of the individual. No Government should have the power or veto over life of an individual. They are elected to run a country not decide when we should die.

It might depend on what might happen to the doctor or relative afterwards – not what the politician says with his smug smile in front of the press. The pm or your mp can make all the pledges in the world but, unless it is allowable in law, it is not going to mean diddly squat in court.

What really frustrates me Jim is that she could end up in a place where the person in the next room has blown the lot on wine, women and song and now gets their care paid for by the state. What is the point of working hard and investing when this is the end game?

Absolutely.I like many people have worked hard,saved up ,paid my bills on time and not gone after the spend now pay back later [ if at all ] ,brought up a family and hoping that at sometime in the future MY and my wifes hard work will give them a hand up th ladder of life.
Now it seems everything MAY be taken away from us all to pay for others.
I have to say that if this looks likely to occur i will leave everything to my children and take my chances.

What really frustrates me Jim is that she could end up in a place where the person in the next room has blown the lot on wine, women and song and now gets their care paid for by the state. What is the point of working hard and investing when this is the end game?

I couldn’t agree with you more Der,Best be a sponger and claim, as we all see in the Papers every week, Benefit scroungers who are quite able and fit to work, but can get more out of the system by staying at home.Did you see the 23 Stone woman in the News this week, who blamed the system by giving her so much money, that she ate Takeaways every day.Nice if you can get it.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Kev. WADR I did say, “Compos Mentis”. If you are terminally ill, but fully aware of what is going on around you, should you, not anyone else, have the right to determine whether you live or die?.
Resuscitation, as I understand it is to awaken a person from unconsciousness.A typical example, is when I underwent major surgery at the end of last July, as you know. When I went back to Addenbrooks in the following January this year, the Surgeon stated, that I had died on the table, and it took the team just over 5 minutes, to bring me back, and I take my hat off to them for doing so. As I was then over 72 yrs of age, they could have “Let me go” and save bed space, after care etc.I agree, with what you say, inasmuch as it has to be taken into account on an individual basis. It is a subject that can go on for as long as it takes for the Cows to come home. I think that quality of life should also be taken into consideration, and that is the point of this Post.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

I see your point Warren, so instead of “Resuscitate”, read, “Failing to feed, give drink, or any care whatsoever” until the patient finally dies.
Just about the same as pulling the plug, in as many words?.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Do you really understand what resuscitation means Jim? It can take a number of forms. I’ve been there when it should have been done, when it shouldn’t have been done, when it was done and when it wasn’t. It really is a very complex issue which isn’t talked about openly enough. Having been involved in numerous resuscitations I always found the experience to be very undignified, whatever the outcome.

Essentially, every case has to be treated individually. What are the circumstances? Who ordered the DNR? Who was involved in the consultation process? There are many, many facets to this. However what you describe in this sentence “Failing to feed, give drink, or any care whatsoever” is simply neglect and has no place in this discussion. Palliative care is something quite different and is, in many ways, something quite special. The withdrawal of treatment is carried out in hospitals routinely but that should never be accompanied by a withdrawal of care. There comes a point in time, for many people, when to prolong their life is actually harmful. The whole subject of euthanasia, assisted suicide, the withdrawal of treatment and quality of life will exercise the minds of lawyers (and the pockets of their clients) for years if not decades to come. I think the crux of the problem now is that medical science has advanced to such an extent that lives are being saved, being prolonged, simply because the ability is there to do so, and not because it should be done.

Regards,

kev35

Or transferred the assets such as the house into a family members name several years prior to going into a care home. But that could be fraught with problems if they sell it from under you, it has been known to happen.
When my late mum went into care plans were been made to sell her house to fund her care, social services had offered a free trial period to see if she would be happy in a care home or back at home on her own (89). She loved it, but was really anti her house being sold out from under her as she wanted to leave it to us, sadly she died a day or so before her free period ended, so the house came to us and not the state….. One almost felt she had planned it that way and went out with a smile on her face having got one over them.

I think it’s morally wrong, that anyone should have to sell their homes to pay for the right to live to a peaceful end. I would like to think that all of my hard earned, paying off the house would benefit my kids, not the State, who have robbed me, you and many others in Taxes etc, and then deprive you of leaving your family a legacy.

In an ideal world I would agree with you but how is this all to be paid for?

If the State has been ‘robbing’ you of taxes and you want to leave whatever money you can to your children then where is the money to pay for all this care going to come from? The government doesn’t have any money, and has to borrow huge sums of money just to pay for what we think we are entitled to now, never mind a huge increase in free State care for the elderly.

I also witnessed an elderly lady in the next bed to my mother, looking frightened and struggling for breath as she died, while Doctors and nurses passed by with hardly a glance – the decision had been made to ‘let her go’.

But what other decision could the doctors and nurses make; and what quality of life could this old lady have had if she was struggling for breath?

It would be possible, I am sure, to prolong life in many cases by some form of intensive (and very expensive) care but to what end; so that the patient could live a few more years confined to a hospital bed?

As you say, a lethal injection would be kinder, but who would make that decision?

What really frustrates me Jim is that she could end up in a place where the person in the next room has blown the lot on wine, women and song and now gets their care paid for by the state. What is the point of working hard and investing when this is the end game?

I feel very sorry for you Der. I was under the impression, that one picks up from the media, that Care Homes for the elderly in Scotland were free. They all should be I,M,H,O, I have noticed many things in my life, since I reached the end of my working life, no one wants to know you, even though I still pay Income Tax.Now I, like many others, am just a number.You are classed as a second class citizen. The only thing that seems to make you worthwhile in the world, is if you have shed loads of money, sadly.Mind you, I am a cynical ole git, no doubt due to my old job.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

IIRC Warren, Care homes for those that are in need of same in Scotland, are paid for. I think it’s morally wrong, that anyone should have to sell their homes to pay for the right to live to a peaceful end. I would like to think that all of my hard earned, paying off the house would benefit my kids, not the State, who have robbed me, you and many others in Taxes etc, and then deprive you of leaving your family a legacy.

Jim.
Lincoln .7

In Scotland it’s only paid for if you have assets worth less than £25,000. Anything above that disappears down a big plughole very rapidly.Local authority care homes round here are about 500 quid a week. Private sector can go up to about double that. I am about to go through this with my mother.

Having watched my Mother die in dignity (23yrs ago) from cancer in a hospice, Dad had a massive and fatal heart attack 18 months earlier. I cannot fault the treatment handed out. BUT!

I have had rescue cats for most of my life 3 score +, and as a family we have decided when that animal has passed the point of quality of life. Hard as it is we ensured they did not suffer.

How you bring that into law I cannot easily conceive without someone abusing it. We need a massive change in culture to allow what is now legal for vets!

Back to Jim’s original point, if it’s legal; we may not agree with it but this is our current care in the community. Hospitals are now run as a business and the dreaded term ‘blocked bed’ becomes subject of the accountants bottom line as well as a possible relief line for A&E.

Is it morally right to allow a failing patient to die in their own time whilst stopping someone who has a chance of recovery in A&E who needs that bed! That is a choice not many people would be willing to make.

Euthanasia is still widely practiced in UK hospitals, but it’s just not talked about.
My experiences with both my parents and two brothers, was that the Doc would have a quiet word with us, asking if we wanted to stop whatever was keeping them alive, i.e. drugs or machines. I suppose they were taking up scarce hospital beds, but they all struggled before eventually going.
I also witnessed an elderly lady in the next bed to my mother, looking frightened and struggling for breath as she died, while Doctors and nurses passed by with hardly a glance – the decision had been made to ‘let her go’.
Seems to me that a lethal injection would be far more humane, but then somebody has to administer it…

Trump our experiences were similar but no dignity for my father either despite everything being executed legally.

Now that is a different issue, because the patient (presumably) does not want to die, although there are parallels, as you point out.

It is easy to say what sort of care the State should provide but that does not solve the problem of how such care can possibly be paid for.

IIRC Warren, Care homes for those that are in need of same in Scotland, are paid for. I think it’s morally wrong, that anyone should have to sell their homes to pay for the right to live to a peaceful end. I would like to think that all of my hard earned, paying off the house would benefit my kids, not the State, who have robbed me, you and many others in Taxes etc, and then deprive you of leaving your family a legacy.

Jim.
Lincoln .7