What’s Wrong With the Roads?

Linc your rhetorical question is interesting. In 30, 40 years time will there be classic cars as we now understand the term as we are transported about robotically in as yet undreamt of vehicles.
For sure no one will be “tinkering” with them to exploit their characteristics for fun or competition. Enjoy yours while you can!!;)

Yup, but all this technology is pointless, so it’s more energy efficient, shame you burn more building them, and this new must have tyre pressure sensors, well that is worth poo unless they blow themselves up.

Most modern small family saloons will out perform a 1960s “sports car” won’t they?

Most will Chas, but will there still be as many Modern cars which we will be able to say the same about when they are then a Classic car?, You can, IMO work on most Classic cars yourself, try and work on todays modern car though.Just about nigh impossible.

I had one in 1963ish, and when I first got it, the thing topped out at about 73 IIRC, however, a re bore, twin Webbers and tuned by Broadspeed, made all the difference.
I don’t know which one you drove recently Mr M, but if you had a go in a Cooper “S” or in my “s” Coupe, I think you would be most impressed,

I remember reading somewhere in the past, that the more narrow, (In width) a tyre was, the better traction you would get in snow.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Yes but even basic cars by todays standards are nippy compared to the older cars.

Yes they are. Most newish cars can do 100+ mph. But having a classic car isn’t about speed.

Most modern small family saloons will out perform a 1960s “sports car” won’t they?

Yes it is, I got my first mini around ’82-’83. That said I couldn’t afford to get it through a test or to replace it’s bald tyres, so it did understeer.

I have driven once recently, it was gutless and wasn’t that much fun.
Turn the clock back 30 years and it seemed quick and it was fun, but not by todays standards.

Yes but even basic cars by todays standards are nippy compared to the older cars.

Isn’t the mini an understeerer?

Moggy

Yes it is, I got my first mini around ’82-’83. That said I couldn’t afford to get it through a test or to replace it’s bald tyres, so it did understeer.

I have driven once recently, it was gutless and wasn’t that much fun.
Turn the clock back 30 years and it seemed quick and it was fun, but not by todays standards.

Simples, have two sets of wheels, one with winter tyres and the other with normal. Sorted.

But having a 4×4 doesn’t help when a muppet up the hill has got stuck. You may have all the grip in the world but if the road is blocked, it’s blocked.

Another thing I noticed when I was driving for work was the 4×4 drivers doing 70+ in the snow, yes they had traction to get to that speed, but when it comes to stopping they are the same as a 2 wheel drive car.
Most 4×4’s weigh 2 tons+. Not good for stopping.

I found the standard Cooper was, yes your right, however, I have never encountered any understeer or oversteer in the Cooper “S”, I think it had a few “Tweeks” done to the suspension to overcome this. It has certainly been put through it’s paces, and the roadholding is superb by any standard.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

makes the back end stick to the road better, you can certainly tell the difference.
Jim.

Isn’t the mini an understeerer?

Moggy

Mines a TT Quatro, WHEN IT’S NOT IN THE GARAGE BEING REPAIRED…:D

similar to the flip up spoilers on the back of some cars, the Porsche one if i remember correctly was designed to come up at speeds above the UK limit, for the UK, Porsche reduced the actuation speed so owners could see it working, although at those speeds the car didn’t need it.

:p…..Mine has a spoiler, comes up at about 47, and goes down at about 37, you can, by using a switch, keep it up, or leave it down, OR, just leave it on auto. and yes, you CAN tell the difference when it’s up, makes the back end stick to the road better, you can certainly tell the difference.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Porsche one if i remember correctly was designed to come up at speeds above the UK limit, for the UK, Porsche reduced the actuation speed so owners could see it working, although at those speeds the car didn’t need it.

Certainly not the case for the 996 / 911. It comes up at 120 kph and tucks away below 60. ( 74/37 mph)

Moggy

Mines a TT Quatro, that is front wheel drive normally, the four wheel drive automatically comes in as the car senses it needs it, push it hard or on slippy roads and the traction warning light comes on telling you that you are exceeding the grip of the cars FWD system, I spent last winter trying to get the light on :D…. to quote Madness. ohh what fun we had 😀

The roads being slippy are probably due the the right atmospherics where the road surface “sweats” out all the oils and lubricants that have been absorbed, Winter tyres are in my eyes just another way to extract money, similar to the flip up spoilers on the back of some cars, the Porsche one if i remember correctly was designed to come up at speeds above the UK limit, for the UK, Porsche reduced the actuation speed so owners could see it working, although at those speeds the car didn’t need it.

Yokohama W*Drive; not the most expensive you can buy but certainly not in the ‘cheap’ bracket.

Just to be clear, I wasn’t accusing you of cheapskatedness – that was just a general observation. Yokohamas are fine tyres by and large. I used their ‘Decibel’ low noise tyres on the Jagdeo until they were recently discontinued.

Moggy

Warren, one should try and avoid any braking in snow and ice, use the gearbox, and if the road conditions are that bad, you shouldn’t be driving faster that the prevailing weather conditions.(Must say though, that handbrake turns is good on snow…:rolleyes:)
Jim.
Lincoln .7

What many people don’t appreciate is that in the last 20 years most tyre manufacturers have changed their compounds significantly – with the main aim being to reduce rolling resistance and thereby increase the mpg.

This has been achieved by changing the grades of carbon black, using more silica fillers and increasing the use of silanes. This supposedly shouldn’t affect grip, but does it?

Cheap winter tyres are pretty ineffective anyway.

Yokohama W*Drive; not the most expensive you can buy but certainly not in the ‘cheap’ bracket.

I first fitted them a few years back for a skiing trip (full set cost was about £450 then) because my Audi A4 was an absolute liability on any sort of snow and the experience was the same with the snow we’ve had here the last few winters. Braking is the main problem; the ABS system effectively means you have no brakes on ice or snow.

Winter tyres are considerably less effective than all-year or summer tyres once the temperature is over 7 degrees.

Cheap winter tyres are pretty ineffective anyway.

Moggy

Exactly Moggy, My son had a nail in the wall of one of his tyres yesterday, His car, has a small compressor and a can of self sealant for such punctures. He took his car to Kwick Fit, and asked them, as all his tyres would soon need replacing, to fit Winter tyres. At this branch they were offering a “Buy one, get one free” The fitter at said place is a friend of my son, and he told him exactly the same as you stated re the Temperature, and they were a waste of money.

Having driven both rear and front wheel drive cars, I much prefer rear wheel drive, If the rear goes out on a rear wheel drive, you have a chance of recovery, however if the front goes on snow or ice, there is little chance, you may as well sit back, fold your arms and wait for the bang.
Many years ago at COWBIT on the A1073, we had many Fatal accidents on a short stretch of “Bendy” road, to cut a long story short, Forensics were called in, and their conclusion at the end of the day, found it was only F/Wheel drive cars this was happening to. It was also found that the “Breakaway point” on any given bend was higher with a front wheel drive car as opposed to a rear wheel drive.
Personaly, I wouldn’t waste my money, just drive according to the prevailing weather conditions. I also found that the highest rate of vehicle accidents throughout the year, was the week prior to Christmas, I used to dread that week.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

I tried them once and realised that for most of the time they were actually giving me, and worse still Mrs Moggy, less grip than the all-year tyres they had temporarily replaced.

Not something I’d bother with again, but the tyre industry have been rubbing their hands at the growth in this fashion market.

In countries with reliable snow through several months they are essential and often mandated. Here, a bit pointless.

Moggy