When did aeroplanes first get wet?

Another reason water was chosen was the idea that a crash into water would be more survivable than onto land

Yet another good reason for choosing water as your airfield was the lack of foot traffic.
Another aviation experimenter, Arthur Schaef of Wellington, New Zealand, found that when he tried out his aeroplane in the local park in 1910, children/dogs/ladies on bicycles congregated around and prevented him getting a good speedy run across the ground. He reasoned that such a problem could be avoided if he fitted floats and used the nearby harbour as his airfield.
His machine was still largely unsuccessful, but that could be blamed on the engineering processes involved.

In other words, it was a boat with wing-like attitude controls.

As for the Langley/Wright/Curtis lawsuits, Langley and Curtis used seperate ailerons, while the Wrights used wing-warping… and part of the lawsuit claimed Curtis was using Wright-type controls.

The Wrights also claimed their patents covered ALL forms of heavier-than-air craft, whether they used any of the Wright-designed features or none! No one could build [B]any[B] heavier-than-air craft without paying the Wrights for the privilege.

So the lawsuit was dubious at best.

In 1879 Finnish engineer Robert Runeberg (son of national poet of Finland J.L.Runeberg) build an aeroplane using a boat as platform.

Fixed wings were covered with silk. Steam engine (15 hp, 537 kg) driven propeller was installed to the boat’s backside. Half of the propeller was in the water and half in the air.

Runeberg’s plane was a biplane. Length was 5 meters, wingspan 6 meters. The total weight of the plane was 1150 kg.

The first flight attempt was total failure, the plane didn’t have enough power to get in the air. To the second attempt a fast boat was connected to the plane but it didn’t make much different. The bow rose from the water but the rest of the plane stayed on the water.

Surely a Sandringham? F-OBIP converted from Sunderland III JM719 😉

Indeed. I was using the term loosely, but you are correct. But then, I’ve seen it. 😉

Louvre or Le Bourget? Do both, and eat and drink well… 😀

Oh and Pondskater – they’ve got a Sunderland across the road… )

Surely a Sandringham? F-OBIP converted from Sunderland III JM719 😉

And it’s on my travel plans – if only the girlfriend didn’t think the Louvre was better. 🙂

Allan
Hoping to become a real enthusiast

Langley was on the right (not Wright) track. He had several powered models that flew but is scaling up, had problems. Two crashes of his “Aerodrome” Langley gave up! Curtiss picked up the pieces and after some major reengineering had the ****** flying 11 years later.

Ooooohhh, no. ‘Major re-engineering’ is the least of it, and Langley was on the wrong track in that it’s absolutely clear Langly’s plan and understanding was fundamentally flawed, and the Aerodrome would never have flown under power and control.

Curtiss and the Smithsonian needed to ‘prove’ otherwise, because of the patent and legal battle with the Wrights, so in one of the most dubious pieces of fraud in aviation history, Curtiss rebuilt the Aerodrome into an aircraft that could fly, but owed little, if anything to Langley.

Curtiss was a damn good aviator, but the he and the Wrights got tangled in a nasty litigation that really compromised their further contributions to aviation. Langley wasn’t a good aviator; he was a museum director who should have stuck to his job, and being supported by the Smithsonian, as he was their Director, like many other institutions they got into a terrific pickle trying to support the unsustainable in claiming that Langley ‘flew’ a controlled powered aircraft before the Wrights. The result was the loan of the Wright Flyer to the Science Museum in London (outside the USA) until 1948 when the Smithsonian finally admitted what everyone else had accepted years earlier.

The series by Phil Jarrett on early aviation and the shonky claims by some in that period in Aeroplane magazine in 2003 is well worth reading. Authoritative web resources are also available on this sorry saga of great men’s bad sides and the blot on the Smithsonian’s copybook.

As to the original question… It’s been answered! 😀 But one of the problems early aviators did face was trying to protect their aircraft from water and its effects, whether land- or seaplanes. Whatever the covering chosen, they had to either protect it from moisture, water-proof it (with a weight penalty) or accept the warping and weight problems that a light passing shower could give. The saga of effective covering is one I’ve yet to see written up well anywhere, but the bizarre materials and processes tried (Cheneese silk? Rubberised fabric anyone?) before the doped fabric ‘solution’ was settled on is fascinating.

Cheers!
(A real enthusiast in that I’ve also banged on about La Grande Gallerie de Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace at Le Bourget like Melv. 😉 Oh and Pondskater – they’ve got a Sunderland across the road… )

Langley was on the right (not Wright) track. He had several powered models that flew but is scaling up, had problems. Two crashes of his “Aerodrome” Langley gave up! Curtiss picked up the pieces and after some major reengineering had the ****** flying 11 years later.

Here is a link to some of that interesting history.
http://www.flyingmachines.org/langaer.html

That would have been Samuel Langley’s 1903 attempt at a high dive from a houseboat into the Potomac river.

Hi Chris, the Langley was flown by Glenn Curtiss in 1915 at Lake Keuka USA after he had it removed from the Smithsonian Institute and fitted with floats and properly “tuned up”. It was powered by the original engine, designed by a Mr Manley. and the original propellor. Source ‘Jane’s Historical Aircraft from 1902 to 1916 by the Countess of Drogheda. A facsimile reprint from Jane’s All the World’s Aircraft 1917.
Ray

Thanks for that info chaps. Glenn Curtiss began making kitsets of his aircraft I believe as I’m sure I read that the Walsh brothers, Leo and Vivian, brought two Curtiss flying boat kits in from the USA for their school at Kohimarama, Auckland, NZ. After flying them they decided to design and build their own aircraft and came up with other flying boats. I have a documentary with footage of their flying boats and aerial footage from one of them in about 1913. Amazing to see the city from the air back then.

And yes if you want to take the title literally I can possibly beat the Wright Brothers getting rained on because Richard Pearse’s first flight in March 1903 took off from a road but landed in a riverbed so I guess he may have gotten it a little soggy. 🙂

A few thoughts on wet aircraft (I love that phrase!) in chronological order:

Jan 17 1902 – a claim that Gustav Whitehead flew a flying boat a circular distance of 7 miles. A highly controversial claim pre-Wright Brothers – feel free to discuss, with evidence if you can. (1)
June 6 1905 Gabriel Voisin flew a float plane glider that was towed aloft from the Seine, the first flight from water. (1 + 4)
1909 – Garbardini flying boat built (2) But it seems to have not flown?
March 28 1910 Henri Fabre flew his hydravion from the harbour at Marseilles, the first powered flight from water, as mentioned above. Quite strange float design. (thanks for the pics Wieesso) (4)
Jan 26 1911 Glenn Curtiss takes off from San Diego Harbour in his hydro-aeroplane (on floats). (2)
Nov 18 1911 Cmdr Oliver Schwann attempts to fly an Avro D float plane from Barrow dockyard but, after lurching into the air, the plane crashes. This is often called the first flight from water in Britain but being first to the scene of your accident doesn’t really count. (2 + 3)
25 Nov 1911 Oscar Gnosspelius. Windermere, Lake District. Lifted successfully but crashed due to the pilots inexperience. Gnosspelius was the first to put a step in the floats. (3)
25 Nov 1911 Waterbird, Windermere, Lake District. Flown by Herbert Stanley Adams in a machine built for Edward Wakefield by A V Roe. The real first flight from water in the British Empire. (3)
April 2nd 1912 Sydney Sippe flew the Avro D from Barrow dock successfully. First flight from seawater in Britain. (3)
1915 the Langley Machine was reworked by Glenn Curtiss fitted with floats and flown successfully from water.(2)

A couple of questions still to answer though – when was the first flight from water in the UK – Schwann’s crash or Adam’s flight and safe landing? Does lifting from the water but then crashing really count as flying?
Are there any other early flights not here?

The majority of these flights were floatplanes rather than flying boats. I suspect that is because they were copying ideas successfully proved on land. Indeed, Wakefield’s A V Roe design was tested on land first. Two basic methods of float design were hydroplanes and stepped hulls. Both principles were known before flights from water were attempted. Glen Curtiss used a hydrofoil for his first flight but dispensed with it later.

Another reason water was chosen was the idea that a crash into water would be more survivable than onto land (as long as you didn’t get tangled in the wreckage and drown!) Voisin and Wakefield both stated this a reason for choosing to fly from water. (4 +3)

It is now in the Grande Gallerie of the Musée de l’Air at Le Bourget.

Melvyn, thanks for that – I didn’t realise that Fabre’s plane was on display – which I suppose says something for my enthusiasm.

Allan
Not a true aviation enthusiast

Sources
1. Milestones of Flight, Janes, 1983.
2. Jane’s Historical Aircraft 1902-1916, Janes, 1917
3. In the Shadow of the Eagle’s Wing: History of Aviation in Cumbria, Dumfries and Galloway, Peter Connon. Private published.1982
4 Aeromarine Origins, H F King, Putnam, 1966.

28th March 1910

http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/fabre.html

The award is usually reckoned to go to Henri Fabre who flew in 1910.

Some years ago I was at the Musée de l’Air and heard the following story.

Sometime in the 1950s or 60s an old chap turned up to the museum, which was then at Chalais Meudon and said he had an aeroplane they might be interested in. They sighed and thought about patting him on the head in an obviously condescending manner as he was probably talking about some Jodel or something and when he told them he had built it himself they were even more wary.

Then he told them his name.

it was Henri Fabre and he had stored the aeroplane all that time and even helped on the restoration.

It is now in the Grande Gallerie of the Musée de l’Air at Le Bourget (and if you have never been there you are not, despite what you might claim, a true enthusiast.)

That would have been Samuel Langley’s 1903 attempt at a high dive from a houseboat into the Potomac river.

Ah, point of order. In order for it to be classified as an aeroplane that got wet it has to have flown first. Langley can get an award for “most imaginative used of a bundle of sticks thrown into a river” but it doesn’t class as flying!

MH

That would have been Samuel Langley’s 1903 attempt at a high dive from a houseboat into the Potomac river.

Didn’t the guy who was favourite to be first for powered flight launch off a house boat? I forget his name, such is history, but it got wet very shortly afterwards, as well as bent and broken.
It was powered and had wings but fly? Nah!

John

Dave,

Very early – in fact pretty much from the beginning. It seems that the fact that a body of water gives a long flat surface was appealing to many early aviators – but overcoming the problems of breaking free from surface tension was not well understood for some time. You will notice the steps in all flying boat hulls and seaplane floats to pull air under the float and lift it from the water, but somebody had to discover that first.

First powered flight was Henri Fabre – south of France about 1909/1910. I’ll look up the date for you tonight and post some more thoughts.

All the best

Allan

To be facetious – and taking the thread title literally – I would think shortly after the Wright Brothers tame Met Man had issued a forecast of “Mainly dry and sunny”!!!
HTH!!
Peter Davies (ex-Met Man)

Rather early in aviation from what I have seen. Especially for long distance flying, have to cross water, it makes sense to have A/C that float. Also, not a lot of airports to begin with!

The first scheduled airline flight was started 2 miles from where I live. Flying back and forth accross Tampa Bay, Florida, in a Benoist Seaplane. They are gearing up to celebrate it’s 100th at our local museum where they have a flying replica(flew for the 75th) hanging in the exhibit hall.

FIRST AIR LINE FLIGHT, 1914 “The New Year’s Day flight by Tony Jannus on January, 1, 1914, was the first scheduled airline flight with a passenger and started him on a career carrying passengers across the Tampa Bay. Jannus used a Benoist biplane seaplane in the flight from St. Petersburg to Tampa, Florida. It was reported that he flew at a height of 15 feet on his trips across the bay.”

This from The Miami Herald, Sunday, Jan. 1, 1984,
on the occasion of the 70th anniversary of the flight