Where ould you like to see XH558 display first?

Sorry Albert I dont find that post very suitable 😡

I don’t know if anyone here saw the B52 display at Mildenhall in the late 80s or early 90s (I will have to dig out the year) but it was described in “Aviation News” as truly staggering and it was. It was probably the most impressive display I have seen by a large jet and you would not have believed an aircraft that large could move like it did that day. It had taken off westwards with an immediate left turn and was over the hangers on the south side before the end of the runway. It was also the first display of a B52 which held the nose down after leaving the ground to gather speed and was copied by B52 display pilots for a few years after that at various displays. I think the pilot was Randy Ashworth?? who posed for photos afterwards – very impressive although I am a big Vulcan fan.

Would this be the same pilot…???

Link removed by moderator – Fatal crashes not acceptable here

J Boyle – My comments were regarding your quote -‘a bloody and costly war many view as being of dubious merit’ . It was a clear and justified case for British forces to go to war. Nothing colonial about it at all – the people living there had the right to determine their future and the Argentine Junta had other ideas !
The situation of Grenada from memory was an attack on a Commonwealth country without engaging the Commonwealth in discussion as to whether any other action could be taken . From memory an AN-2 and AN-24 were destroyed amongst
other items of Soviet hardware . Very much a case of ‘not in my backyard’ -clearly
America viewed the construction of a large runway as a potential threat .Sounds quite colonial to me in deciding what your neighbours can and cannot do!

I don’t know if anyone here saw the B52 display at Mildenhall in the late 80s or early 90s (I will have to dig out the year) but it was described in “Aviation News” as truly staggering and it was. It was probably the most impressive display I have seen by a large jet and you would not have believed an aircraft that large could move like it did that day. It had taken off westwards with an immediate left turn and was over the hangers on the south side before the end of the runway. It was also the first display of a B52 which held the nose down after leaving the ground to gather speed and was copied by B52 display pilots for a few years after that at various displays. I think the pilot was Randy Ashworth?? who posed for photos afterwards – very impressive although I am a big Vulcan fan.

It was 1990 Old Git. And it was impressive.

Will she be at Legends?

Ever seen a B52 barrel roll?

I don’t know if anyone here saw the B52 display at Mildenhall in the late 80s or early 90s (I will have to dig out the year) but it was described in “Aviation News” as truly staggering and it was. It was probably the most impressive display I have seen by a large jet and you would not have believed an aircraft that large could move like it did that day. It had taken off westwards with an immediate left turn and was over the hangers on the south side before the end of the runway. It was also the first display of a B52 which held the nose down after leaving the ground to gather speed and was copied by B52 display pilots for a few years after that at various displays. I think the pilot was Randy Ashworth?? who posed for photos afterwards – very impressive although I am a big Vulcan fan.

..and have the organisers thought that out?

As the organisers haven’t even thought about where the rest of the money to get the thing in the air is going to come from I’d suggest that you are being a trifle optimistic there.

Moggy

J Boyle – come on ! How about Grenada! I think the people in the Falklands thought it was justified!

As did the countries neighboring Grenada. 😀 I really don’t think the 52 was used in Grenada. Small islands and big bombs (and bombers) don’t mix terribly well. 😀

Back to topic…Is the Vulcan project financially realistic?
How much of a surcharge would the typical UK airshow visitor be willing to pay to see it fly?
Twenty pounds the first time? But how many for the 6th or 10th?

Don’t get me wrong, I loved seeing the Vulcan fly in airshows back inthe 70s…Probably the most impressive performance I’ve seen by a large aircraft.
But what are its long term prospects…and have the organizors thought that out?

J Boyle – come on ! How about Grenada! I think the people in the Falklands thought it was justified!

I suppose it’s up to the people who want to see the Vulcan in the air (and I really don’t care where it is geographically) to lobby the airshow organisers.

And let’s hope that few if any of them bend to that lobbying to the extent of disregarding financial realities, or there could be a lot fewer shows the following year.

Moggy

Oops, sorry America

XN923, To respond to your off topic and unnessary bit of “Yank bashing”, might I suggest you might want to check your history. From what I can tell, the B-52 was only used in one war (Vietnam) that the RAF was not also involved in.
The others were the Persian Gulf, Kosovo…etc.

I’m too much of a gentleman to point out the Vulcan was used in the Falklands…a bloody and costly war many view as being of dubious merit…and other postwar RAF bombers were used in attempts to hang onto Imperial colonies. Hardly politically correct actions by today’s standards. 😀

Back on topic…I haven’t seen answers to these questions:
How many events do the Vulcan group plan on supporting a year?
In the opinion of forum members, is that number realistic?
What will their estimated fee be per event? Again, air show fans and experts…is that realistic?
And how many years do they see the AC fliyng?

My apologies, I did not wish to indulge in Yank bashing – I can see how my remark would be ragarded as over the line and I withdraw it forthwith. I merely wished to point out that comparing the service records of the two aircraft was not comparing like with like and I regret bringing politics into it.

Back on topic. I don’t think that 558 would ever do more than a few airshows per year but I’m surprised at the attitude that it would be too expensive period. I would have thought Vulcan To The Skies would have a good idea of the ‘pull’ of the aircraft before undertaking such a complex, difficult and expensive scheme as returning her to airworthy condition. There are a good many expensive aircraft that airshow organisers are prepared to pay for – will the Vulcan be so much more costly?

This is an emotive one for me. Seeing 558 in her natural element on one occasion was the single highlight of my airshow-going. It stood head and shoulders above any other display I’ve ever seen, and I’ve seen some good ones. I would pay double what I’d pay for any other airshow to see it again. I hope she does put in some appearances, and word of mouth helps people to realise what they might be missing.

I suppose it’s up to the people who want to see the Vulcan in the air (and I really don’t care where it is geographically) to lobby the airshow organisers.

Just because Britain has had the good sense not to go to war as often as the US in the service lifetime of the aircraft doesn’t automatically make the B52 a better bomber.

XN923, To respond to your off topic and unnessary bit of “Yank bashing”, might I suggest you might want to check your history. From what I can tell, the B-52 was only used in one war (Vietnam) that the RAF was not also involved in.
The others were the Persian Gulf, Kosovo…etc.

I’m too much of a gentleman to point out the Vulcan was used in the Falklands…a bloody and costly war many view as being of dubious merit…and other postwar RAF bombers were used in attempts to hang onto Imperial colonies. Hardly politically correct actions by today’s standards. 😀

Back on topic…I haven’t seen answers to these questions:
How many events do the Vulcan group plan on supporting a year?
In the opinion of forum members, is that number realistic?
What will their estimated fee be per event? Again, air show fans and experts…is that realistic?
And how many years do they see the AC fliyng?

I think I’m saying what I’ve always said, sorry if that hasn’t come across. :confused:

Originally Posted by DGH
I can see were you’re coming from with relation to costs but I actually believe that the Vulcan will be a huge draw at Airshow’s, I think the real issue is going to be what airshows will be able to cope with the crowds!

I would probably add Waddington, Leuchars ( if the RAF agree to fill the tanks! ) and a couple more but it will be limited.

I doubt either Waddington or Leuchars would get the added gate to pay for it. What is their usual attendance?

Now you’re starting to look at this realistically.

I think I’m saying what I’ve always said, sorry if that hasn’t come across. :confused:

Originally Posted by DGH
I can see were you’re coming from with relation to costs but I actually believe that the Vulcan will be a huge draw at Airshow’s, I think the real issue is going to be what airshows will be able to cope with the crowds!

I would probably add Waddington, Leuchars ( if the RAF agree to fill the tanks! ) and a couple more but it will be limited.

Now you’re starting to look at this realistically. What it all boils down to is that no-one apart from RIAT will be able to afford it, so that’ll £2.5m lottery grant spent for two flights – 1. Bruntingthorpe-Fairford and 2. Bruntingthorpe-Duxford and grounding? :confused:

Well that’ll be cost effective!!!

Albert, I have taken this into consideration when I say it, thats why I said I don’t think she’ll be seen at many small airshows. Most just wont be able to support her (in my opinion) by having a large enough venue ( which relates to people through door, which relates to cash, which relates to costs ).

So just to clarify what I think.

a). I think the first airshow has already been contracted and that will be RIAT.

b). I think she will be a big crowd puller with Joe Public but I doubt many airshows will have the facilities to cope with her.

Now you’re starting to look at this realistically. What it all boils down to is that no-one apart from RIAT will be able to afford it, so that’ll £2.5m lottery grant spent for two flights – 1. Bruntingthorpe-Fairford and 2. Bruntingthorpe-Duxford and grounding? :confused:

Albert, I have taken this into consideration when I say it, thats why I said I don’t think she’ll be seen at many small airshows. Most just wont be able to support her (in my opinion) by having a large enough venue ( which relates to people through door, which relates to cash, which relates to costs ).

So just to clarify what I think.

a). I think the first airshow has already been contracted and that will be RIAT.

b). I think she will be a big crowd puller with Joe Public but I doubt many airshows will have the facilities to cope with her.

Fair points Melvyn but I think we’ll have to disagree on the crowd pulling potential of the Vulcan. When I talk to people who are over 30 and I mention I like aviation nearly everyone starts to talk airshows and next to everyone has a Vulcan story – ask them if they would like to see one again and they say they would jump at the chance. Now I’m not stupid enough to think they will all come but if you take this over the population as a whole I think there will be a massive interest, the increase in numbers will not come from enthusiasts but from joe public in my opinion. I don’t think you’ll be seeing her at small airshows.

£10,000 – yes I am being optimistic, hoping that they can get at least some sponsorship! 🙂

Sorry DGH, but I agree with Melv whose arguments make a lot of sense and whose vision is not clouded by ‘rose coloured spectacles’ as many are. What you also haven’t considered is that you can’t run an air show just with the Vulcan alone and the horrendous insurance and operating costs are made up from all the other participants , which have to be balanced against the gate takings. The Vulcan could well be just too costly to ‘add to the list’, let alone expecting queues just to see it alone. 🙁

Matter of opinion.

At best it was a partial success, compared to many thousands of B52 sorties over the years. Not trying to denigrate the Vulcan or it’s crew, just trying to point out the silliness of the original

…. are forigners, to show them how it used to be done all those years ago, because then, when it came to bomber production, we were the best!!!

… nonsense.

Moggy

You could say the same about the Heinkel He111. The Vulcan was the most advanced and highest performing bomber in the world when it was new and with the same kind of upgrade programme the B52 fleet has had the Vulcan would still be a worthy rival. Just because Britain has had the good sense not to go to war as often as the US in the service lifetime of the aircraft doesn’t automatically make the B52 a better bomber.

Anyway, back on topic….

what was the question?

I only said more interest – not how much!

Bruce